happened tonight...jumpball arrow for red...gold calls time out and granted...gold gets ball o.o.b (mistake)no one says anything plays resumes and we have a foul on red, gold shooting 2...we shoot 1 and basket good...red coach calls official over and complains his ball on jump call...offical says to late (mistake?)...coach complains correctable error...officials get together and determine that it isnt correctable because we are past the allowable time frame for correcting error...i have read 2-10-2 but still am not sure we did he right thing...can anyone break this down and tell me if we got it right and if not when was it correctable...thanks

If it had been a correctable error, you would have still been in the time frame (unless someone had scored during the period you summarize with the phrase, "play resumes.") It's not a correctable error, though, because it's not on the list (2.10). Let's all recite it from memory, 1) wrong shooter, 2) wrong basket, 3) giving an unmerited free throw, 4) not giving a merited free throw, 5) erroneously counting or cancelling a score. I really, truly did that by heart, I hope you're all impressed!

You tell the coach, "I'm sorry. But you'll get the next two out of three to make up for it." If he's still scratching his head about that at the end of the game, you know his I.Q. is... well, never mind.

thanks for the post rainmaker..let me be a little more specific...we did score a basket on the first foul shot...I wondered if we awarded an unmerited free throw because we gave the ball to the wrong team...because red coach complained after the free throw was made (still the first dead ball) and within the alloted time restrictions...should we have granted the request?

rainmaker is correct that awarding the ball to the wrong team for a throw-in is NOT a correctable error under 2-10. This is simply a mistake in the administration of the game by the officials. If the official catches this before the completion of the throw-in, he can stop the game and fix it, but once the throw-in has ended (been touched in-bounds) no correction can be made. Casebook plays 6.3.1 Sit D and 7.5.2 Sit B are the references.

That said you should be aware that the rule, 5-8-4, which allows a coach to appeal a play like this is a little more inclusive. It also includes preventing or rectifying a timing, scoring, or alternating-possession mistake. Of course, as I said above, the AP mistake cannot be rectified after the throw-in has ended, it can only be prevented if caught before then.

rainmaker goofed though about the time frame. If this had been one of the five correctable errors (say you had a foul that should have merited shooting 1-and-1, but instead you gave a throw-in), you would still not be able to correct it because you missed the first dead ball after the clock properly started. That dead ball occurred when the foul was committed. You then administered one FT. This makes the ball live for the second time since the "error/mistake." So now it is too late even for a 2-10 error (which in your case this was not). You actually had this whole discussion during the SECOND dead ball following the mistake.

Lastly, are you aware that if a coach wishes to claim that a correctable error has occurred and make an appeal, he must request a time-out? (10-5-1b and 5-7-4) That's a 60-second TO if he has one, a 30 will do if he does not. (5-11-3)
You then determine whether or not a 2-10 error (or timing/scoring/AP mistake) has occurred and if so, whether it is still correctable. If the answer to either of these is no, then the team is charged with the TO and can use any time left over. If the coach was right, then his team is not charged the time-out. (Casebook plays 5.8.4 Situations A + B as well as 2.10.1 Situation F)
It seems that you failed to do this when the coach questioned the play.

[Edited by Nevadaref on Oct 12th, 2004 at 04:13 AM]

As Juulie said this situation does not fit into any of the 5 correctable error situations .... elapsed time, scoring other activites are unimportant.

This was an officiating team screw-up and not a correctable error situation. So sad play on.

Hopefully you were able to quickly resolve this and not need to charge the coach with a timeout. Sounds like you probably should have - that would have added some excitement to the situation. :D

gotta love this board
 

thanks for the help everyone...i didnt know about the time out and will review the case book rules cited...one other thing it was my screw up not my partners...i told him gold on the endline...

My understanding is that the dead ball of a free-throw doesn't count. I can't find a rule reference right now, but I think I'm right about this.

Help, anyone?

I hadn't thought about this course of events. By golly, he's right. When the ball is at the FT shooter's disposal, it is live and is now too late. That ended the first dead ball that occurred after the error.

What you may be think of is an error that occurs due to erroneous FTs. You can shoot 2,3,4, or even 10 FTs and the correction period is still valid since the clock hasn't been started. So in that case, the live-dead-live-dead-etc doesn't matter.

If the FTs are the first activity after the CE, then they "don't count" -- bucause the rule is .... "first dead ball *after the clock has started*".

But, once the clock starts, then the fact that the ball became live with the FT is relevant.

okay, I see. Doggone it, now I"ve got to rummage around in the darn memory and re-set all those little toggles. I hate that!

Or...(lazy man...errr...person's way out) just make sure you never, ever need to use 2-10.

If you believe I can pull that off, I've got....

oh, dear, I was going to say, I've got some land you can buy real cheap in Florida, but I guess that's not very funny.

Sorry about that. But if you learned something, you are a better referee today than you were yesterday. That's a positive. :)