I figured I'd start a new thread on this topic. The following was taken from the thread Good Grief...

Quote:

Originally posted by Nevadaref Quote: I thought that the officiating was quite good and they did it two man! I thought so too. Labron James took about 5 steps before one dunk (apparently legal in the NBA) and they called a proper travel on him. Labron couldn't believe it. Z

I assume your talking about Walton's comment that Labron made a legal move :rolleyes:. I replayed the tape in slow motion and counted 5 steps. He's so used to watching the NBA that he probably wouldn't call a travel on a star even if he picked up the ball at half court and took 10 steps to dunk it.

I do think that they were being a little harsh on the USA team with the traveling calls (Even though I was loving the fact that NBA players had to play by the rules :D). There were a number of travels committed by the Italian team that were not called. One that stuck in my mind was when there center received a pass around mid court and his momentum caused him to travel a couple of times. I don't understand how they can miss that one but they called the USA team for lifting their pivot foot before starting their dribble (no advantage gained) a couple of times.

The travel calls made were no excuse for their lack of defense! They need a couple of pure shooters on the team that can hit the 3 which would open up the middle.

Did anyone see the time the ball went over the backboard and there was no whistle?

Overall I think the refs did a good job considering they were doing 2 man!

I think FIBA rules allow the ball to go over the backboard and not be a violation. Any FIBA officials out there that can confirm or deny that? Thanks.

OVER THE BACKBOARD
 

Just a comment on over the backboard. In FIBA rules the ball can go over the backboard as long as it does not touch any supports. I was at the under 21 tournament of Americas in Halifax last week and it happened on three occasions. The first time I was surprised that there was no whistle but then a friend of mine who officiates FIBA told me the rule.

Re: OVER THE BACKBOARD
 

I was wondering if that was the case but I thought I saw them call it earlier in the game. It must have touched a support then.

I am bewildered how FIBA can continue to use the Two-Man system in this day and age. I am not knocking the FIBA referees, they don't decide such matters. I heard that the Olympics and World Championships are supposed to be Three-Person from now on, but obviously not these tune up games.

How about this idea? They should take the team that won the NBA Championship (for that year) and have them represent the US. This way you are ensured a team that can play together, with just the right amount of role players. Do you think the Pistions would have let Italy score 95 pts in 40 mins.....I don't think so.

I'm sure there are plenty of reasons why this wouldn't work but it's an idea.

There are two problems with this solution that I can see.

First, too many NBA players don't want to play in the Olympics.
Second, there are going to be more and more of these important roles on championship teams filled by foreign players. Imagine if the Mavericks had this honor, for example.

Adam

Agreed. Dwayne Wade was called for traveling twice in the first half where I didn't think he traveled. (I don't even think he lifted the pivot foot.) And then in the second half, before it became a blow out, a USA layup was waved off with a traveling call that was obviously not a travel. And then in the 3rd quarter, an Italian guard cut through the lane along the endline, caught the pass, shuffled both feet, then dribbled. No call.

There was only one contact play (that I saw) that I thought was called incorrectly. (A layup by Duncan that was waved off for a ticky-tack call as he pivoted. Yes, there was contact, but you penalized the offense by calling it when it obviously didn't affect the play.)But the travel call was very poorly officiated.

Just to be a fan for a second. . . USA vs. Germany tips off in a little more than an hour. Any predictions? Was yesterday a sign of things to come for the US team; or a wake-up call? It should be a wake-up call, but I have a bad feeling that it's an omen.

I watched an international game between Canada and Argentina (Under 21) in Moncton two weeks ago. There was not one single travel call made all game. There was only one that I thought could have been called. A few instances of shuffling the feet with no advantage. I thought these two officials did a good job.

Watched most of the game. Saw the winning shot. Or actually didn't see it real well because ESPN did such a terrible job with their cameras. Iverson caught everybody off guard. Nowitzki was unconscious all day with his shooting. Man he can shoot the rock!

For those of us on the west coast the US v. Germany game will be reshown at 10PM on ESPN.

I actually played these travels over in slow motion and they were in fact travels. One of them was were he picked up his pivot foot and started a dribble (very slight). The other one he actually traveled twice because when he caught the ball he landed on his back foot first hence establishing it as his pivot. When watching it live it didn't seem like travels but upon replay they definitely were. BUT, I don't think they should have been called because there was no real advantage gained.

I completely agree that this was a horrible call which should have not been called or the basket should have counted since he was habitually starting his shot.

Ok, I can live with that. I didn't have the benefit of replay and I thought that he put it down before lifting the pivot.

And the problem here is that it's legal in the NBA with the 2-count for establishing your pivot. The NBA players (most US players, for that matter) just aren't familiar with the int'l rules.

Interesting, I didn't know that the NBA had this rule.

Dickie V just wrote an article suggesting this same theory. http://espn.go.com/dickvitale/vcolum...SA-future.html

I can't believe he didn't suggest sending the NCAA's champs ;) "They'd be Awesome, Baby!" Could you imagine Vitale's reaction if Duke were going to the Olympics.

Vitale suggested 3 alternate representatives to replace any foreign players.

Part of the problem is that a lot of NBA players have no desire to play in the Olympics.
Maybe sending the NCAA champ would make more sense. The biggest draw back with the pre-dreamteam process was that the players couldn't play as a team. So, how do we fix that? We get a bunch of ego-maniacs who take for granted their superiority and then get their a$$es kicked. It worked the first time partly because we'd just gotten beat and Jordan and friends weren't about to let it happen to them. USA basketball is getting cocky again, and the rest of the world is starting to catch up (as evidenced by the increasing amount of foreign talent in the NBA.)
Maybe we should let an established college team give it a shot. The Gold would actually mean something, then.

Adam

I wonder if NCAA rules prevent this somehow.

If not it would be fun to watch, but I don't think they would do that well against the mostly older & bigger teams that go to the Olympics these days.

I agree, if we sent a team that had gelled, they could compete much better. Seems as if they went to top players/athletes and kept asking til they had 12 yes's and went with that and gave no consideration to TEAM. If these guys don't win, it could be understandable, but their lack of effort is unacceptable and if they don't turn it around, then I hope the fan let them know during the '04-'05 season. They gotta understand, it's not just winning and losing, it's about representing.

Back to the post, refs this and refs that, USA Basketball needs a gut check.

Did anyone else notice that near the end of the Lithuania-Puerto Rico game today (approx. 11 seconds left), Lithuania attempted a FT with no one in the bottom space to the shooter's right? In fact, there were three players along the lane on the shooter's left and no one at all on the right side of the lane.
This FT happened after a foul in the backcourt by PR who trailed by about ten and was just stopping the clock. The officials hustled down the court and administered the FT, but the PR player didn't get there until the second FT.
I was surprised that they did not wait for him. It looked weird.

In NFHS it is a technical foul to not be there in a non-resumption-of-play situation.

This is allowed in Fiba rules

I was wondering about that, but no one had posted that FIBA difference before.

Maybe because we did not know that you had to in the U.S.

There are probably a few more differences that were not mentionned. Here is a link a some of the differences between different leagues and sets of rules.

http://www.members.shaw.ca/jazzace/a.../rulediff.html

I heard a good point on the radio this morning on the decline of USA basketball's Olympic performances. There is this assumption that we should be rotating our players every time through, when the rest of the world is sending their best every time.
If our best players are, for example; Shaq, Garnett, Kidd, McGrady, and Bryant; then we need to go with those players as long as they are the best, even if it means they go to two or three Olympics.

There is no assumption that the players should rotate. All of these players were invited but declined the invitation, for various reasons.

While some may actually have concerns with security issues, I know how easy it is to come up sith some pretty valid excuses to not do something asked of me when I'm either to tired, busy or selfish to do it.

Sincerely,
All those players who declined USA Basketball for the 2004 Olympics

Jim,
That's the other problem with asking NBA players to take time out of their oh-so-busy lives. They just don't care as much about the Gold medal as the other nations' players to. Otherwise, you wouldn't get the top players turning it down for various reasons.

Honestly, I'd rather see Duke playing in these games than this "team."

At least Duke has some players who could hit an outside shot.

Could someone explain the NBA "2 second rule" regarding establishing a pivot? Sounds Greek to me :)

Not 2 seconds, but a "2 count".
 

Section XIV-Traveling
a. A player who receives the ball while standing still may pivot, using either foot as the pivot foot.
b. A player who receives the ball while he is progressing or upon completion of a dribble, may use a <B>two-count rhythm</B> in coming to a stop, passing or shooting the ball.
The <U>first count occurs</U>:
(1) As he receives the ball, if either foot is touching the floor at the time he receives it.
(2) As the foot touches the floor, or as both feet touch the floor simultane- ously after he receives the ball, if both feet are off the floor when he receives it.
The <U>second occurs</U>:
(1) After the count of one when either foot touches the floor, or both feet touch the floor simultaneously.
c. A player who comes to a stop on the count of one may pivot, using either foot as the pivot foot.
d. A player who comes to a stop on the count of two, with one foot in advance of the other, may pivot using only the rear foot as the pivot foot.
e. A player who comes to a stop on the count of two, with neither foot in advance of the other, may use either foot as the pivot foot.
f. In starting a dribble after (1) receiving the ball while standing still, or (2) coming to a legal stop, the ball must be out of the player's hand before the pivot foot is raised off the floor.
g. If a player, with the ball in his possession, raises his pivot foot off the floor, he must pass or shoot before his pivot foot returns to the floor. If he drops the ball while in the air, he may not be the first to touch the ball.
h. A player who falls to the floor while holding the ball, or while coming to a stop, may not gain an advantage by sliding.
i. A player who attempts a field goal may not be the first to touch the ball if it fails to touch the backboard, basket ring or another player.
PENALTY: Loss of ball. The ball is awarded to the opposing team at the sideline, nearest spot of the violation but no nearer the baseline than the foul line extended.


[Edited by mick on Aug 20th, 2004 at 09:30 AM]

That's been my biggest problem. FIBA allows for three-person mechanics, but they're only using two refs during the Olympic games??

Especially when badminton (a sport played by 4 players) has somewhere around 8 officials???