If a player goes up for a shot at the 3pt line and you don't get a very good look at their feet (straight-lined, transition, etc) how do you call it? I've been signaling 3 unless I know for a fact that they were on the line.

I go the other way, and then try to learn from it and be in position the next time.

If you don't know, it's a 2.

I'm with Camron

I'm with Snaqwells.

2 1/2 points.

Raise an arm & a half.

I guess I figured the player is far enough out that it should be considered a 3 unless known otherwise (Innocent until proven guilty). By the way I'm talking about toeing the line not an obvious foot over.

I definitely try and be in position but sometimes it doesn't happen the way you excepted or I just get a bad look in transition.

Maybe I'll just follow Dan's advice :).

cford,
If ya miss it, if yer not sure, don't forget to glance at your partner who may have it.
mick

Sigh. If you raise 2 arms for 3 points, then each arm must signify one and a half points. So if you raise an arm and a half, that's one and a half points plus another three-fourths of a point; making a total of two and a quarter points, not two and a half.

To signify 2 1/2 points, you'd need to raise an arm and two-thirds. Kids these days. . . sheesh.

Ahhh...you're a theoritician.

I'm an engineer, maybe you can tell us how to raise an arm and 2/3? I mean a human arm of course.

Beats me. But if you can advise somebody to raise an arm and a half, then I can raise you one-sixth of an arm. :)

I'm All In - two arms and two legs.

Sounds like you been watching the World Series of Poker on ESPN

that's gotta be at least a 6 point play! Don't see those very often.

Actually, since we don't signal anything on a 2 point basket, the two arms really only signal the extra point. Since each arm signals half a point, then to signal 2.5 points, you should just raise one arm.

What Snaqwells said.

This premise is debatable, at best. If raised arms only indicated one point, then we would give the touchdown signal after a successful FT. I don't think that flies.

Ah, but you see, the raised arms indicate that the basket is worth an extra point. If there were a rule that allowed for a two point free throw, say, if the shooter shot it with her eyes closed, then we would signal a touchdown to signify the extra point.
Back to the 3 pt shot. How many points is a live action (with defense fully engaged) basket worth if the official does not signal anything? Two. If we give the signal, then it's worth the extra point. Therefore, the signal is worth one point.

I think he's got ya, Chuck!

And if dogs had wings, then I'd be king. The fact is there is no such rule, so your contention is moot. We have no way of knowing how such a situation would actually be indicated. We might indicate with the touchdown signal, or they might reserve the touchdown signal for a 3-point shot and invent a new signal.

I just disagree. The official signals nothing when the basket is worth 2 points, but the official also signals nothing when the basket is worth 1 point. The fact is that when the arms go up, 3 points go on the board. The less convoluted conclusion is that the signal is worth 3 points.

Not by a long-shot, Juulie :)

Still what Snaqwells says.

I can show you how to raise 2/3 of an arm. I have to warn you, however, that it might hurt a little.

Bruno, Vinnie, help the man out... ;)

For those of us who've been around a few years, you might remember that a two point basket was once signaled by a horizontal arm with two fingers extended and a made free throw was signaled by the same signal but with only one finger. The difference was directly discernable from the context of the signal.

However, when the 3-pointer was introduced a new signal was needed. The difference between two fingers and three fingers was too subtle from long distances. A very clear signal was needed.


B.S. mode on... ;)

Why not borrow one from football. Of course in football, that signal is worth either 1, 2, 3, or 6 depending on the reason. Two are from having a player possess the ball beyond the goal line (2 and 6). Two are from propelling the ball through a goal (1 and 3). The extra point is akin to a FT while the field goal is akin to a....field goal.

Still we have to consider the signal which precedes this one, the half raised single arm with 3 fingers extended. That one is actually worth 0. Using this as a reference point, rasing the arms the rest of the way is work 3 points. So, a full arm is worth two points. One and a half arms are worth 3.

B.S. mode off... ;)

Thanks you for allowing my little trip through fantasy land.

Camron,
I hope you said "Hi" to Dan and JR for me.
mick

Could be wrong, but I always thought that this was Chuck's signal for a 2-point shot:
http://www.sodamnfunny.com/Picture/Animal/photo7.jpg
This oughta turn this thread in a different direction!

One needn't look very deep to see the logical answer to this, Chuck. If a shot goes in from the perimeter, how many points are given if the ref does not signal?
If a shot goes in from the perimeter and the ref raises his hands, it's worth an extra point for distance.
two arms up = one point

Adam :)

Now I need some medication.

Adam

[Edited by Snaqwells on Jul 16th, 2004 at 03:33 PM]

I see your point here, Adam, I really do. It's just wrong, that's all. Camron provided the historical perspective needed to prove the point. I should've thought of it previously.

Until about the 1996-97 season (Mark DeNucci can probably nail down the exact season for us), each type of basket had its own signal. A FT was designated by extending the arm parallel to the floor with one finger extended. A 2-point FG was designated by the extended arm with 2 fingers extended. And the 3-point FG was designated by the touchdown signal. So historically, the 3-point signal was a separate signal, and was necessary to distinguish it from other types of scores. Back then, there was never any thought that it simply indicated awarding an extra point. It was telling the scorer to put 3 points in the book.

The fact that the 1- and 2-point signals have been eliminated doesn't change the value of the touchdown signal. It tells the scorer, "that was three!"

:)

I know, Chuck. I was just engaging in some rhetorical goofing. I remember those days, I had just started reffing. Back when the lead would mirror the trail on a 3 point hoop, and the two would switch if they got caught working weak side. :)

Great point, Chuck. Being a youngster myself, :rolleyes: , I don't remember those "good ol' days", so it hadn't occured to me to think in those terms.

It's comparable to calling the second shot of the one-and-one a bonus. Why aren't both the first and second the bonus? Because originally every foul gave the offended team one shot. The fact of shooting wasn't the bonus. The second shot was. But since we don't give a shot for every foul any more, it sounds strange.

Chuck wore Snaqwells down with seriousness.
Still worth "one more", not three, just like a PAT, same signal ..."one more".

Nah, I just had to back down due to time constraints. I'm packing (okay, I'm taking a break from packing) for another air national guard trip right now (just a week and I'm not flying over any significant water). I had to concede simply because I ran out of time. :)

And Chuck's going all in too!

Looks like he's got a nut flush!

Thankfully you can't raise an All In. I don't know what beats a nut flush, but I bet it's hard to get a hand like that.

Actually I think you can raise an All In.
It would be a side pot with any other players that remain in the hand.

I was worried about being crude but I guess it was needless.
If you want to talk fractions in this discussion of signals and raised arms, does anyone remember the picture of the mouse and the eagle titled, The Last Great Act of Defiance?