I've been watching the 2004 YBOA Nationals (mostly girls 15 & 17 U). The play is very rough. Several players have gone down and not gotten up. Many more have been bloodied, bruised and battered.

Some players actually appear to tackle (i.e., body slam) opponents. Others throw elbows in faces. One fell then intentionally rolled to severly injure an opponent with possession.

None of these occurences were penalized and I have not seen a single player control penalty enforced in the entire tournament.

Realistically speaking, is there anything that can be done to correct or improve this situation? I fear that the only alternative may be to drop YBOA.

Nope, there's not a damn thing that can be done about it. We're all for dropping YBOA too. Please let us know where we can vote.

Wanna hear some lawyer jokes? Only we're not joking.

ballpunk,
You do not paint a very clear picture of your concern.
Which rules were broken? What were the circumstances?
Where was the disadsvantage disallowed?

Should you drop YBOA? Sure. Do it.
mick

What is YBOA?

What is YBOA?

[/B][/QUOTE]Young Barristers of America, Mick. It's a league for lawyers. Instead of calling a foul, you sue the player responsible. Each game takes about 6 years. Unless it goes to Appellate Court. Then they take 9 years.

Mick

Jurassic Ref was wrong again. YBOA = Youth Basketball of America. Glad you are retired JR.

The specifics are that kids are routinely getting injured and the terrible refs are not controlling the game. This failure to penalize blatant physical contact is promoting rough play. It's not just wrist checking, blocking, charging, etc. These kids are big, aggressive and unrestrained.

What ever gave you the idea that I'm retired from officiating? And pray tell, Mr. Lawyerman, exactly what are YOUR credentials to judge that the refs are "terrible" anyway? Hate to say it, but you really sound like just another fanboy that shows up here to complain about the nasty ol' refs. Well why don't you damnwell do something about it. Go out and strap a whistle around your neck and referee some of these YBOA games. Show the bad ol' refs how to do it right. Didya ever think of that?

ballpunk,
Is this just a summer ball setting? Is this just some form of recreational ball?
Are there coaches that actually teach and are paid?
Who sponsors this "of America" sport? Is there a national board?
I'm just trying to picture why so much contact is allowed. The officials on this forum are very much aware of the necessity of following rules, so I am not quite sure to whom you would register your concerns if you are merely talking "Rec ball". On this Forum, Rec ball is considered a joke by most members, yet it is conceivable that new officials, unfamiliar with actual basketball, can use that platform to start learning skills they will need at properly administrated levels of basketball.

There are instances in real hoops when rough contact is acceptably incidental, but that is explained and enforced by rule.

No, you may be in the wrong place for your complaints. YBOA may not even be thought of as a real sport on OfficialForum.

mick

I am quite sure JR knew what YBOA is. He is much closer to the real world (on his good days) where YBOA actually attempts to exist than I am.
He is a kidder guy. Pick on someone else who you may have a chance to one-up.

"Several players have gone down and not gotten up"

The next time a player tells me he is "getting killed" I will let him know that in the DC metro area kids actually die on the court and the refs still don't call a foul...
Nice one Punk !

"Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country," --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington, DC.

If you have the authority hire better refs, which means finding them and paying higher fees, at least.

If you have no authority you can always find an internet message board to vent.

Thems your choices.

"What happened to my crack pipe? One of you b****es take my damn crack pipe?" --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington, DC.

JR

That's ballpunk not fanboy. Try to keep it clean. It's not hard to spot terrible refs. We've all seen too many of them and, as they say, it ain't rocket science, it's a game. In my book, terrible refs are not just inconsistent, illinformed or stupid, they exhibit some bias towards a team, player or coach that diminishes the spirit of basketball. Your suggestion about "strapping on a whistle" (obviously an oxymoron) is good. Unfortunately, I am physically unable to do so. Oh, and, here's the lawyer part...I never said you were retierd from reffing.

I am quite sure JR knew what YBOA is. He is much closer to the real world (on his good days) where YBOA actually attempts to exist than I am.
He is a kidder guy. Pick on someone else who you may have a chance to one-up.

[/B][/QUOTE]Yeah, JR knew what YBOA was, Mick. JR wasn't kidding though. JR gets very upset when people indiscriminately dump on officials without being able to give a REAL good reason why they are doing so. Now, if Mr. ballpunk can maybe give us some PROOF(using the rules, mechanics,etc.) that the officials were bad, instead of saying something that might be classed as "hearsay" in a court of law, then maybe Mr. ballpunk might be better received. Maybe a good analogy would be some clown saying that ALL Little League umps are terrible. :D

If you want quality officials, pay more money. Maybe even pay for 3 Officials for each game. Hire varsity officials/college officials only. And schedule the games so most can attend.

I am familiar with YBOA, but it is a joke. It is like AAU, no defined teams, no real coaches, and fans that think their child is going to get a D1 scholarship or pro contract.

Yeah, just like mick said. Most of us see it has a joke.

Peace

JR,
Well that's simply not true!
Only some of us are.
mick

I never said anyone died. Not very helpful or informative weekender. Hope you keep the table and coaches better informed.

Oh my. Not only are the refs "inconsistent","illinformed" and "stupid", they are also "biased". Oh my.

Hmmmmm. Might be a good idea to go for a l'il walk before I answer this one, ballpunk. Maybe wander over to the fridge and get a sip of sumthin'. Lemme get back to you with my answer in a coupla minutes.

Oh, my.

Ditto my reply to weekender DamRef. On all your posts.

I'm pretty sure it does fall under rocket science, it isn't as easy as it looks. I would also like to know your credentials which allow you to judge officials.

That's not what I read...

Yeah, JR knew what YBOA was, Mick. JR wasn't kidding though. JR gets very upset when people indiscriminately dump on officials without being able to give a REAL good reason why they are doing so. Now, if Mr. ballpunk can maybe give us some PROOF(using the rules, mechanics,etc.) that the officials were bad, instead of saying something that might be classed as "hearsay" in a court of law, then maybe Mr. ballpunk might be better received. Maybe a good analogy would be some clown saying that ALL Little League umps are terrible. :D [/B][/QUOTE]

JR

I try to avoid situations where I'd be stuck "teaching my grandmother to suck eggs." That's why I took a general approach in this thread. You see, my comments are not hearsay. I'm the witness and I'm available for questioning. No, it's not a good analogy.

I'm not sure what you're getting all pissy about little boy, you asked & I told you.

If you have the authority then hire better refs. Or stfu.

Simple. Even for you.

Anyway, maybe you'll feel better if you get away from the computer & go for a run or something. I find excersize tends to make me feel better about myself. Don't you?

Reset ! Reset
 

Okay let's start over.

Hi ballpunk,
Welcome to the forum.
Have you had a nice day?

Let me introduce you to some forum members.
Oh, you've met.

Do you have any specific concerns about the quality of YBOA officials that may be articulated and shared? Please keep in mind that most of us do not work that level of hoops.

;)

mick

Um, is "fanboy" somehow vulgar? It's just a term we use around here to denote people who are fans of the game, but know nothing about officiating; especially those who want to criticize the officials. Sorry if it seemed offensive to you. It shouldn't be.


So how do you spot terrible refs? Seriously, how do you personally judge an official's ability? And please don't talk about bias, b/c honestly, you are more biased (while watching the game) than any official who is working the games in question. I don't mean that you would cheat!! I mean only that you care about who wins. You have some sort of rooting interest in the game. The officials couldn't care less which team wins. Somehow people don't seem to understand that.

And while officiating is not rocket science, I assure you that it is much much more than a game. It's difficult, it's hard work, it's competitive. If the official goes to camps to improve (which many of us do), then it's also very expensive, and still most people think the officials are either blind, stupid, or cheaters. You try making 20 judgments per second under those conditions. It's no game, believe me.

And as officials advance through the ranks, people's jobs (coaches, mostly) are actually on the line with the officials' calls. So the pressure to be correct only increases. That obviously doesn't apply to the officials you observed; but please don't presume to come in here and tell us how easy a game this is.


With all respect, and I mean that sincerely, this statement simply shows your absolute and complete ignorance. Officials simply don't care who wins. Even if there were an official who was favoring one team (and I admit the theoretical possibility), there is no way you could have a whole tournament's worth of biased officials. If you truly believe you have rampant bias among officials, you're not living in reality. Sorry to disappoint you.


I don't see how it's an oxymoron. You could buy a lanyard (essentially a thin rope strap) and attach a whistle to it. Put the lanyard around your neck and you have strapped on a whistle. Have I misunderstood your point?

Um. . . Although you did not use the words "JR has retired from officiating", the fact that you are glad that he is retired logically implies that you believe that he is retired. You therefore implicitly stated your belief that JR is retired. You may wish to reconsider "the lawyer part".

Now, here's the sympathetic part. If conditions are truly as you describe them -- elbows connecting with opponent's heads and players being intentionally maimed without fouls being called -- then you should immediately withdraw your team and/or child(ren) from that league. In all honesty, however, I don't think it can be as bad as you claim.

Sometimes it is better to be quiet and let others think you are ignorant than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

Granted, BP's public debating skills may be lacking but he/she sure does make for great entertainment. I like the line about "strap-ons = oxymoron", no doubt.

ballpunk
We went to YBOA Nationals last year, girls side. Games were physical, but clean. If you personally had a group that got their butts kocked on the floor all game, my bet is that they were ill-prepared. I can't help but believe you are a supporter of a team as opposed to a disinterested observer.

Every game of 7 we played was well-officiated. Every single game. We got our butts handed to us a few times, deserved it. We weren't prepared for what we faced (and that day in Disney didn't help our bracket results any, believe me!). We also handed it out - they weren't prepared for what they faced in that instance.

And while some bash AAU here, my outlook is a bit different since I come from that environment. There are some real jerks, but the girls side of the house features as well-played girls games as you will see. These are all-star teams that play together, run offense, play defense, run the court - it is a fun game. And most girls YBOA is SE US girls AAU. We saw the state champs and runners up from FL, GA, TN, etc. Really awesome talent on the court, really well coached. I do know that boys is different in how players are treated and how the games are played. But those kids can flat out play too, and it is better than summer league ball by a good distance.

ballpunk, you're a fanboy because you came here to whine about your team. We know you're a fanboy because we get whiny-a$$ cry babies like yourself here all the time. You aren't interested in fair officiating. You're interested in your team winning.

You've presented absolutely no credentials to make you an expert on officiating. Contrary to fanboy opinions, watching basketball for years DOES NOT make you an officiating expert. Have you ever officiated? I doubt it. Have you ever read a rulebook? I'll bet a $100 that the answer is no. Yet, you know "terrible" officiating" when you see it.

Have you considered that the c oaches have a responsibility to control their players? What a unique concept, eh?!?

BTW, f*** the YBOA. They wanted to play tournaments in my area. They wanted to pay two officials $15 each for a boys' game. We get $28 each for a girls game, 3 man crew. Yet, they're taking in hundreds and hundreds of dollars at the gate. No, I don't think so.

I'm done.

Interesting. They are clearly a money machine when you go to their tourneys. Charge admission to everything, they have sponsorships out the wazoo, of course we pay our entry - $15/game is ridiculous. Not sure what their balance sheet looks like, but I am willing to bet your same $100 that they could do better than that for the refs.

On the plus side, we had fun there last year!

Sure it's true.

Hi little boy.

How was that run?

ballpunk,
I don't wanna play with you anymore.
You don't play nicely. I'm goin' home.

mick

Similar to others, your not much help. My original comment recognized that dumping YBOA may be the only reasonable course of action.

Similar reply. I hope - but now doubt - that you keep the table and coaches more informed. Incidentally, you must spend all of your time running.

That's not quite right JR. I said that terrible refs are biased and that the YBOA refs are terrible. After reading this thread, I believe that the terms "inconsistent," "illinformed" and "stupid" have a good home on this board.

Yeah, you should keep quiet oz.

I'm quite sure as you clicked "submit" you were thinking what a clever little boy you are.

Let me be the first sober person to bring you the news that no, you are not a clever little boy.

Now, I'm sure there's some internet porn that needs your attention...go ahead now...go ahead...off you go...go on...

No, it's not rocket science. Yes, it is a game. If you read the quote then you know you are wrong, or you are...

It's not in Florida this year, at least not the part I'm watching. Too bad you got beat so bad. This particular thread address terrible refs, not losers. I'm sure there's another thread on this board for you.

Now, this is the first time that I've read through the thread, and just to answer the origional question, "How to deal with terrible refs?"

The answer:

Don't do anything, play your game, and hope for your next game you have 2 better officials or maybe these 2 just had a bad game and their next one will be better. Either way, you're not always going to get the best officials working your games, so when life gives you lemons...

Okay, who did it? Someone said BBallCoach three times. Now who was it?!

Ballpunk. Let me spell it out for you. Basketball is a game. Officiating basketball is not a game. It is a science and an art. When I was a little college punk like you, I thought it would be easy, too. I'm just glad I wasn't as obtuse as you are.
Now, get off your a$$, get a whistle, and volunteer to ref some YMCA games.

Shouldn't we have an age requirement to avoid these kinds of trolls?

If you had an age requirement then I wouldn't be able to post here ;)

Unless you're in JH, I don't think you'd have to worry.

Good thing i'm not that young

Ballpunk,

You've been <a href="http://www.mtv.com/onair/punkd/">Punk'd</a>

Buh-bye.