still unanswered shotclock question

[devdog69]

Nobody has really answered the shotclock question. The sitch goes like this...A1 fouled in the act-shot clock horn sounds-ball is released-ball goes in...

I have had this discussion before,probably on this board. I think I was in the minority in wiping the bucket and awarding two shots, but I can't remember...Anyway, that's how I would handle it.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by devdog69
Nobody has really answered the shotclock question...

Think:: ... Socrates....

[w_sohl]

Originally posted by devdog69
Nobody has really answered the shotclock question. The sitch goes like this...A1 fouled in the act-shot clock horn sounds-ball is released-ball goes in...

I have had this discussion before,probably on this board. I think I was in the minority in wiping the bucket and awarding two shots, but I can't remember...Anyway, that's how I would handle it.

What would you do if the shooter hadn't been fouled?

I'm pretty sure you handled it correctly.

[BktBallRef]

As I replied in the other thread, it's handled the same way had it occurred as time expired at the end of the game.

The basket doesn't count has the shot wasn't released prior to the horn. The fact that he was fouled has no bearing on that.

However, A1 was in the act of shooting, so he goes to the line to 2.

[Edited by BktBallRef on Jul 6th, 2004 at 01:03 PM]

[rainmaker]

So, to sum it up:

For end-of-period situations:

1. Continuation begins, foul, horn, release, made basket -- wipe the basket, two shots.

2. Continuation, foul, horn, release, missed basket -- two shots.

3. Continuation, foul, release, horn, made basket -- count the basket, one shot.

4. Continuation, foul, release, horn, missed basket -- two shots.


For shot clock violations:

1. Continuation, foul, release, buzz, made basket -- count the basket, one shot.

2. Continuation, foul, release, buzz, missed basket, but hit rim -- two shots.

Here are the question marks:

Continuation, foul, release, buzz, miss the rim -- uh... two shots?

And what about continuation, buzz, foul, release, miss or hit the basket?

OR, continuation, foul, buzz, release, miss or hit?

[Lotto]

Originally posted by rainmaker
Continuation, foul, release, buzz, miss the rim -- uh... two shots?

Yup.

And what about continuation, buzz, foul, release, miss or hit the basket?

Start of try, buzz before release = shot clock violation = dead ball at that point. So there's no foul unless it's severe enough to be a T.

OR, continuation, foul, buzz, release, miss or hit?

I'm not 100% on this, but I'd say that the foul stops the clock (well, actually the whistle of the official calling the foul stops the clock), so there is no shot clock violation. If the shot misses, two shots; if it makes, count it and one.

[Hawks Coach]

juulie
When the player is fouled, the requirement to hit the rim is gone. You either have a shot or a pass, but you definitely had a foul before the horn. That foul stands. If you judged it to be a pass, it is OOB with shot clock reset. If a shot, 2 FTs, regardless of rim.

It sounds like these were shots with varied levels of success. Think about going up for a layup and getting hammered so bad you couldn't possibly hit the rim. This would not impact whether or not the player got two shots.

[w_sohl]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
juulie
That foul stands. If you judged it to be a pass, it is OOB with shot clock reset. If a shot, 2 FTs, regardless of rim.

Shot clock is reset to the amount of time left on it when the foul occured if it is a pass and not a shot.

(Correct me if I am wrong but I am 99.9% sure here)

[Hawks Coach]

Sorry, but you are 99.9% wrong. That 0.1% should have spoken louder.

Foul causes a shot clock reset. Otherwise, you could foul "on the floor" with impunity and cause a shot clock violation.

Hhmmmmm, not a bad idea if the refs choose to call it this way. . .

[Hawks Coach]

fyi, NBA resets to 14 seconds rather than 24 - not sure why, since you only get 8 seconds to cross half court. Made sense when the rule was 10 seconds - they just gave you back the minimum front-court time.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Lotto
And what about continuation, buzz, foul, release, miss or hit the basket?

Start of try, buzz before release = shot clock violation = dead ball at that point. So there's no foul unless it's severe enough to be a T.

Not true if the shooter is an airborne shooter. An airborne shooter can foul or be fouled even after the ball is dead.

[Lotto]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Not true if the shooter is an airborne shooter. An airborne shooter can foul or be fouled even after the ball is dead.

Good point. However, I wasn't trying to make a general statement, just one about this particular case. And since the try ends when the shot clock violation occurs, there's no airborne shooter after the ball becomes dead in this case.

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by Lotto

OR, continuation, foul, buzz, release, miss or hit?

I'm not 100% on this, but I'd say that the foul stops the clock (well, actually the whistle of the official calling the foul stops the clock), so there is no shot clock violation. If the shot misses, two shots; if it makes, count it and one. [/B][/QUOTE]

Nope. This is the original case posed by devdog. You can't count a shot release after the shot clock horn sounds. Tony's answer is right, and he gets all the points.

However, you get some fraction of those points back from Tony for noticing that if the foul happens during the act of shooting, but after the horn and prior to the release, there is by definition NO airborne shooter. This is because the airborne shooter rule only applies after the release of a try and here the ball becomes dead before it is released.

[w_sohl]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
fyi, NBA resets to 14 seconds rather than 24 - not sure why, since you only get 8 seconds to cross half court. Made sense when the rule was 10 seconds - they just gave you back the minimum front-court time.

Thank you for setting me straight.

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by w_sohl

Thank you for setting me straight.

Hawks Coach,
How did you calculate the Minimum frontcourt time? I can see how the 24 - 8 = 16 would make sense, but 10 baffles me.

PS I had a kid take a TO in a game last weekend while trapped in the backcourt. A father yelled out, "Smart. Way to avoid the eight-second violation."
I thought when did I start to ref in the NBA?