simple question that I can not seem to find in the rule book.
Can a player bounce or dribble the ball during a throw in,
either at the spot or after a basket? A coach ask me this
and I can not seem to find the rule on this! In the 80 plus games I have done so far this season I have not notice any
players doing this.

Dibbs,
Yes, the player may bounce and dribble. It is like a free throw preparation... no rule against doing it.
mick

Dibbs: yes he/she can do both and probably more however he/she still has only 5 seconds to inbound the ball and if it is a spot trow in, he/she is restricted on movement as we all know.

It's one of those things that you can't find in the rule book because there's no rule against, so there's no need for a rule that says you can do it. Just make sure that she doesn't bounce it on the boundary line.

Thank you all for your help!!

Really?
 

On the boundary line?
... Over the boundary line?

On the boundary line. 4-9-2

The inside edges of these lines define the inbounds and out-of-bounds areas.

And, therefore, the boundary line is still out of bounds.

I concur with Mick - must bounce ball completely on court, or it is still OOB. Now how about this?

If it crosses the plane after the bounce, does it become a throw in violation because it is a loose ball, in play, and hit oob prior to inbounds? Certainly the defense can grab it.

The defense can grab ANY ball that crosses the plane with no penalty whether it is in possesion of the thrower in or not. Likewise, the defense can also touch any ball that crosses the plane. If I could determine it, I'd call a throw in violation assuming the defender didn't knock it out of his hands BEFORE it crossed the plane. If the thrower in crossed the plane with the ball and the defense knocked it out of his hands and it hit out-of-bounds before it went onto the court, then out-of-bounds on the defense.

[Edited by Indy_Ref on Jan 9th, 2001 at 11:55 AM]

Indy,
I don't know about that.
I'm giving the ball back to Offense, unless it bounced off the thrower somehow.
mick

Mick, that is exactly what I'm saying!

Sorry, Indy,
Yes you did!
I don't read, or talk, too good.
mick

Nope. You're missing where the boundary is. The boundary line is where inbounds meets out of bounds. I'm not talking about a two inch stripe. The 2 inch, 3 inch, or 2 foot stripe around the playing floor is not the boundary line. Yes, this stripe is OOB. But the inner edge of the line, just as is defined in the rule above is the boundary line. If the ball bounces on the boundary line, it's bounced on the inbounds side as well as the out of bounds side. It's impossible for a ball to bounce on the line where these two areas meet and not hit inbounds.

[Edited by BktBallRef on Jan 9th, 2001 at 08:57 PM]

Tony, :)
1-2-1: The playing court shall be marked with sidelines and end lines....The sidelines and end lines shall be a minimum of 2 inches in width.
4-9-1: Boundary lines of the court consist of end lines and sidelines.

Granted that the inbound/out-of-bound line has neither width, nor depth, but only length.

You may still bounce the ball on the boundary line, and be out of bounds, unless there is insufficient air in the ball and then it won't bounce so good.
mick

Coach,
The bouncing pass becomes a violation:
Throw-in Violations
9.2.2A (a) : Thrower A attempts deception by: (a) causing the ball to carom from the wall..., or from the floor out of bounds and then into the court.

mick

Okay mick, I'll re-phrase my post if it will make my meaning more clearly. But I find it difficult to believe that you can't understand what I'm saying. :(

If the thrower bounces the ball on the inside edge of the boundary line, the edge that separates inbounds and out of bounds, it is a violation. The ball cannot be bounce on this edge without touching inbounds.

Yer right.
 

Tony,
I don't understand how a ball can be in and out at the same time. But it is late.
mick

Re: Yer right.
 

It can't be. It's either in or out.

For the sake of this discussion I will use the word "line" to refer to the <b>inside edge of the boundary that separates inbounds and OOB</b> in this paragraph. When A1 in bounds and step one the line, TWEET!, you're out of bounds. When thrower A1 out of bounds and step on the lline or bounce the ball on the line, TWEET!, you're inbounds.

Perhaps the confusion is that you're thinking of the two inch line. Yes, you can step on the two inch line and you're still OOB. But if you touch the inside edge, you're gonna touch inbounds.

Re: Re: Yer right.
 

Tony,
I know your are talking about the IB/OOB line.:)
If the ball is touching both sides it is OOB.
This isn't tennis or baseball.
mick

Re: Re: Re: Yer right.
 

Are you saying that it's not possible for the ball that hits the inside edge of the boundary line and touch the floor both inbounds and OOB?

Let's try this another way!

Thrower A1 bounces the ball on the line, touching the floor out of bounds and inbounds at the same time.

a) The bounce is a dribble that A1 catches. This is a violation because the ball has touched inbounds and the thrower has touched it after it touched inbounds.

b) The bounce is a bounce pass that A2 catches. This is a violation because the inbounds pass hit out of bounds first.

Gotta love this stuff! :D

Re: Re: Re: Re: Yer right.
 

:)
Tony,
a) 7.2.b The ball is out of bounds when it touches: b. any other person, the floor or any object on or outside a boundary.
b) agreed.
mick

Mick, would you agree that if a player bounces the ball on the boundary line, and for arguments sake none of the ball actually HITS the inbounds area, the ball can still break (hang over) the inbounds plane? And at that point, if B decides to touch/grab the ball, would you give a T to B if A still has possession? Furthermore, would you give team B a boundary plane infraction warning if B grabs the ball?

Casey,
If the B touches the ball without breaking the plane and before it is released, we know that is legal touching.
If B's hands break the plane, before the ball is released, it is illegal and a warning is given the first time.
If A releases the ball on the OOB dribble, I think B still cannot grab the ball, because B can only grab the ball if the ball is released on an inbound pass. (9-2-11) A dribble is not an inbound pass, in my mind.
A dribble that strikes the OOB and then goes inbounds to B would have to have some kind of top spin on it wouldn't it?
In that case, I would probably consider the dribble as an illegal throw-in and give the ball to B for a throw-in. (Case 9.2.2A (a))
I do not want any of this to happen in my game.
mick

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mick
Casey,
If the B touches the ball without breaking the plane and before it is released, we know that is legal touching.

Agreed!

If B's hands break the plane, before the ball is released, it is illegal and a warning is given the first time.

Agreed (assuming that B doesn't touch the ball, otherwise T), but it can be very hard to determine because of our angle in regards to the thrower in and the defender.

If A releases the ball on the OOB dribble, I think B still cannot grab the ball, because B can only grab the ball if the ball is released on an inbound pass. (9-2-11) A dribble is not an inbound pass, in my mind.

Agreed!

A dribble that strikes the OOB and then goes inbounds to B would have to have some kind of top spin on it wouldn't it?

What if the ball was accidentally throw down at a slight angle? Although, I would 99.9% agree!

In that case, I would probably consider the dribble as an illegal throw-in and give the ball to B for a throw-in.(Case 9.2.2A (a))

Agreed!

I do not want any of this to happen in my game.

ABSOLUTELY, AGREE!!

[Edited by Indy_Ref on Jan 10th, 2001 at 09:39 AM]

Somebody once sang, "It's only you and me and we just disagree!"
 

So, if the thrower steps on the line with part of his foot inbounds and part of his foot OOB, he is still OOB and hasn't violated?

And a fine song 'twas.
 

:)
Tony,
Nope can't do that by 9.2.5 Play ;)
mick

Re: And a fine song 'twas.
 

Well, if he can't do that, then he can't dribble the ball on the line either. There's no difference in stepping on the line and bouncing the ball on it.

Our next game
 

:)
Tony,

The ball may be dribbled OOB. A Ball on the Boundary is OOB.

When we next work together, I'm not gonna call your line, anyway. And you won't be calling mine. No praw. ;)
mick

I give up on you, mick. If you could explain why a thrower can't step on the line but can dribble the ball on the line, I would love to hear it.

Maybe this will be easier to discuss...
 

Mick, Tony, just how many angels can do the cha-cha on
the head of a pin? Or let's try this: If you're on one
endline will you ever make it to the other one if each step
takes you exactly half the distance to the other? These
are questions that have burned in the hearts & minds of
humans since the dawn of time. (There was one other but
now that we have a presidential proclamation on what the
definition of "is" is we have less of a burden to carry.)

:)

Did we kill that animal? Or what?
 

Per rules:
1-2-1: The playing court shall be marked with sidelines and end lines....The sidelines and end lines shall be a minimum of 2 inches in width.
4-9-1: Boundary lines of the court consist of end lines and sidelines.
4-9-2: The inside edges of these lines define the inbounds and out of bounds areas.
7.2.b: The ball is out of bounds when it touches: b. any other person, the floor or any object <b>on</b> or outside a boundary.
9.2.5 Play: Thrower A1 inadvertantly steps through the plane on the boundary line and touches the court inbounds..... Ruling: A violation.

Sorry, Tony,
I can do no better than read 'em and copy 'em.
We better end....but I think 288 Angels can dance on the head of a pin. Or, is that too gross? (No Rule or Case found) :)

mick

Re: Did we kill that animal? Or what?
 

Mick, is it safe to say that if the thrower in steps ON the line while making the toss, you are blowing the whistle for violation?

I see this about every 4 or 5 games, and I don't feel it is a violation. I only blow if the player steps ACROSS and touches down ON or BEYOND the boundary <b>plane</b>. I think I'm going to stick with this, too.

yup
 

Re: Did we kill that animal? Or what?
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mick

Quote:

....but I think 288 Angels can dance on the head of a pin. Or, is that too gross? (No Rule or Case found) :) mick

Don't ever, ever do that again :D