My vote is the end of game call/no-call on obvious contact. No amount of reading or studying can prepare you for what happens at the end of games, and your judgement and nerves are put to the test like no other situation (for me).

Just hope that the shooter sells it well enough if the contact truly alters the shot; then blow your whistle and SELL SELL SELL!!

I would say calling a delayed foul (one that is VERY obvious) that happens right in front of your partner.

Could you explain the circumstances on this one a little bit more? I'm kinda confused. What exactly do you mean by "delayed"? And do you mean something that occurs directly in front of your partner, and out of your area?

I know which foul he means
 

The one that I saw from the bench (I had the best angle you know) :)

Close Block/Charge going against Home team in weaning seconds of a 1 point game. GET OUT FAST!!

I think that's what is meant. There are some that you just have to go get....rare but sometimes necessary. B1 hits A1 in the face and there's blood spraying from the nose. You saw the contact and give you partner a chance to call it. He doesn't. You have to jump on it. It's not about his/her area. It's about doing the right thing for the kids.

This one is pretty extreme but there are several more that I could think of.

Your scenario is an easy call tho lol. Let's see blood spraying, who is going to argue that.

If it is a non-basketball play then go get it. Other than that, no we shouldn't and no there aren't many other situations. Your partner is getting paid too so he/she should do their job. I'm sure some will disagree with this but I think planning for no calls out of my area and adjusting to a few is far better than planning on a few and making many. Discipline, discipline, discipline. Crew concept, primary, ref the defense, focus.

Like someone else mentioned the tough calls are the calls against the home team. Anybody can call against the visitors. A crucial call at the end of the game is the most fun.

I'm not talking about a non-basketball play such as a punch. I was talking about a swat at the ball but accidently but forcefully making contact with the face. (Several other more typical examples could be made but this one was simply to illustrate the obviousness of the contact.)

I agree that we shouldn't be looking to call something in front of our partners and should indeed plan not to. But, when we do see something that is more than marginal that everyone in the gym but our partner saw and we are 110% sure about it and 110% sure they they blew it, it is our job to call it.

They hire us to refereee the entire game for them, not just 1/2 (1/3) of a game. We work together as a crew and sometimes we pick up for each other. To not make a call that we know is the right call just because it was in front our partner is not doing the best job for the game.

There's no such thing as "it's not my call" if you see it. However, there is such a thing as "I wasn't looking there" or "I couldn't tell from here, my partner was in a much better spot." Coaches appreciate the honesty.

I've missed calls that partners have picked up. My response was "Thanks". Sometimes I was looking at something else or even just simply had a brain fart.

However, I don't like someone blowing in my area just because he's got a faster whistle than me. I worked with a guy last year who I could swear was doing it on purpose to make it look like he had to cover my area and that I was missing the calls. He beat me to the wistle too many times to count on stuff right in front of me and I wasn't that slow with it. With that and other comments throughout the game, it was clear it was his ego he was working on rather than the game.

Sorry Big Guy, block/charge is the easist call in the game.

For me, the toughest call in the game is the first foul call I make. Here's why: I know that with that first foul call, I am setting the level of contact I will use the rest of the game as a guideline for calling all the rest of the fouls. Certainly, the first one may be a really hard foul and will be obvious, but much more often, it's a "normal" foul. I have to make sure I haven't "set the bar" too low or too high.

This calls importance is magnified by the fact that I make the same call the same way from the beginning of the game until the end of the game regardless of how close the game is at the end. If you are the type (and we all know there are a lot of you) who require more contact at the end of a close game for a foul than you have required up until that point, then I guess deciding when to call a foul in the last minute is the hardest for you. For me, it's the easiest because I have an entire game of precedence to use by that time.

Personally, the hardest foul for me to get right is the one behind me when I'm new lead breaking down court. I don't mean behind and off toward the far sideline, I mean directly behind me. If the players are all spread out, and the ball's at the front of the pack, trail probably can't help much. I've got a lousy angle, and can't be sure whether defense had good position. The only way to reduce errors on this situation is to get to the sideline as quickly as possible, and don't cut toward the basket! The other possibility is to stop and let the play flow past, and then step in from behind. Sometimes, none of this works, and I'm stuck calling or no-calling based on a very limited view of what happened. YUCK!!

I would have to agree there. Even if you are wrong about the call on the block/charge, if you sell it perfect, no one will have as much nerve to argue with you.

Especially if you get out fast!! :)

Now might be a good time to discuss different philosophys of exiting a game...H.S. Varsity games that is.

Some officials like to sprint to the locker room, as fast as they can, a few not even looking to see where their partner is...just sprinting!

Some officials like to loligag(sp) around, getting the ball, taking it to the bench, walking off the court like a stroll in the park.

I like somewhere in between the above two examples...take a quick peek at the scorer's table as you are checking with your partner's location...and then JOG, not sprint, with your partner off the court.

IMO, sprinting gives the impression you are running away scared. I know we like to get out of there, because the longer we hang around something ugly can happen that we might have to deal with (that's why I don't condone casually walking off either)...but sprinting just dosen't look good, IMO.

If you are working with an official that does either of the two extremes...mention your exit strategy in pregame...and come up with something that works for both of you.

I dont know, the thought of explaining to some of these younger referees in a pregame about an "how to escape" from the game we are about to do, might just scare the little ones just a tiny bit ;)

How/why can you see all of this take place in your partner(s) primary? Can you explain to me how you can see all the intricacies of plays like this while focusing on your primary? Also, do most of these plays you see happen in the same area as the ball or off ball?

No, it is not our job to look in our partner's area, know all the details of the play and call it if they don't. That is called ball watching and while an official may get away with it for an entire career it can also end a career. It is a system whether two-person or three-person that has been and is still developing to provide the best court coverage possible. It is not a system in which all officials look at the same play all the time and decide if it is a foul/violation or not. Our goal should be the perfect game. While we (all officials at all levels) may or may not ever reach this goal our best effort (highest percentage of correct calls) can only be obtained by being mechanically correct.

You are right, they hire us (two or three people) to officiate the entire game. If you and your buddy were hired to move a stack of boxes (that can be easily moved by one person) would you watch him move a box then your buddy watch you move a box or would you both move different boxes at the same time knowing that your buddy is moving boxes on the other side of the stack. Well, in most cases we have players in our primary to officiate. The first competitive matchup means officiating the two opponents closest to you, most of the time, in your primary. Officiating the defense is something more than just a catchy saying. Knowing the defenders in your area before the ball is swung to the player they are guarding helps focus and judge the play. I also had a college supervisor that wanted a whistle followed immediately by something like "black 32." The thinking is, if you know what you have instantly it lends credibility to the fact that you had the play all the way. This is very difficult while using your peripheral vision to watch your primary rather than using it to watch your secondary. If we are talking about a defined primary and not a dual/overlapping coverage area there are so many reasons for us not to see something in our partner's primary and so little a reason for us to see something in our partner's primary. So should we put a scientifically proven theory to practice or sit back enjoy the game and bleed into other areas? I think we should talk about and train to officiate in a manner that will get the highest percentage of correct calls.

This is just my opinion based on my experince and what I have heard/seen over the years.

[Edited by tomegun on Jun 10th, 2004 at 07:21 AM]

Leaving the court
 

I prefer to walk, at a normal pace, off the court. I will not mess around on the court either, I just leave. Running off almost seems like we are trying to escape after doing a bad job. IMO.

Not quite this extreme. But you got the jist of it. Obvious (100% sure) foul, happens in front of your P, they don't call anything. You end up calling it late.

I know about our coverage areas as does just about every body else.

So basically some of you are saying that if you P may have been blocked out, or had a brain-fart. You will let them fry. Even if you happen to be 110% sure that foul had to be called.

This didn't actually happen to me but it happened to another ref on my board. The evaluators for that tournament didn't ride him for calling out of his area - they were criticizing the other ref for not making that call (it was that obvious). I believe the play happened off a rebound (which was why he happened to see it).

Sure but we aint hired to just move some small boxes off the truck. I really don't like to use war as an analogy for anything - particularly sports - but in this case as an example it fits. Imagine you and your buddy were in a fighting hole together. Wouldn't you want him to be looking at your primary from time to time?

I had a game last year - home team down by 2 under 5 seconds. I'm T on table side. The ball swings to the shooter in front of me, I take a few steps to my right to get an angle. Shot goes up over the defender ("THAT'S A FOUL!!" I hear from the bench just behind me), I put one arm up, buzzer, ball goes in, I put my other arm up & turn to jog off.

As I turn I was swallowed by home team bench & fans coming onto the floor. As I finally got out of the crowd I could see my partners, on the other side of the door, laughing at me.

As I finally got out of the crowd I could see my partners, on the other side of the door, laughing at me.

[/B][/QUOTE]Just your partners? Musta been one of your better games.

Get out fast.
 

I think as a rule of thumb for me, is to get out as fast as possible. Now this will vary from the type of game that was played (rivalry, non-conference blowout). Also where is the locker room?

I think if you stick around the fans and coaches have an easier shot at you. At least in Basketball, if they court is stormed, I want to get out as fast as possible. I had a couple of games like that this year and they are not that fun. Of course the game is fun, but trying to navigate you movements thru a rushing crowd can not be the best thing. And in most HS games, we do not have the security as big time college games or pro levels.

I feel if you just walk thru that, you will find yourself in the middle of some crap. I really do not care what they think, my safety is first at issue.

Peace

Just your partners? Musta been one of your better games. [/B][/QUOTE]

Awww...that wasn't very nice...you hurt my feelings

http://pbskids.org/lions/words/images/cry.gif

Sometimes the area that you are covering happens to put part of your partners primary in your line of sight.

It would be hard to qualify a "most" since they're uncommon to begin with.

Quote:

Originally posted by tomegun Quote: Originally posted by Camron Rust I agree that we shouldn't be looking to call something in front of our partners and should indeed plan not to. But, when we do see something that is more than marginal that everyone in the gym but our partner saw and we are 110% sure about it and 110% sure they they blew it, it is our job to call it. No, it is not our job to look in our partner's area, know all the details of the play and call it if they don't. That is called ball watching and while an official may get away with it for an entire career it can also end a career. It is a system whether two-person or three-person that has been and is still developing to provide the best court coverage possible. It is not a system in which all officials look at the same play all the time and decide if it is a foul/violation or not. Our goal should be the perfect game. While we (all officials at all levels) may or may not ever reach this goal our best effort (highest percentage of correct calls) can only be obtained by being mechanically correct.

Agreed. But, if you see something in your partner's primary---which can happen when you're covering your own primary---it should not be forbidden to call it.

Quote:

Originally posted by tomegun Quote: Originally posted by Camron Rust They hire us to refereee the entire game for them, not just 1/2 (1/3) of a game. We work together as a crew and sometimes we pick up for each other. To not make a call that we know is the right call just because it was in front our partner is not doing the best job for the game. There's no such thing as "it's not my call" if you see it. However, there is such a thing as "I wasn't looking there" or "I couldn't tell from here, my partner was in a much better spot." Coaches appreciate the honesty. I've missed calls that partners have picked up. My response was "Thanks". Sometimes I was looking at something else or even just simply had a brain fart. However, I don't like someone blowing in my area just because he's got a faster whistle than me. I worked with a guy last year who I could swear was doing it on purpose to make it look like he had to cover my area and that I was missing the calls. He beat me to the wistle too many times to count on stuff right in front of me and I wasn't that slow with it. With that and other comments throughout the game, it was clear it was his ego he was working on rather than the game.

Quote:

Originally posted by tomegun ... Well, in most cases we have players in our primary to officiate. The first competitive matchup means officiating the two opponents closest to you, most of the time, in your primary. Officiating the defense is something more than just a catchy saying. Knowing the defenders in your area before the ball is swung to the player they are guarding helps focus and judge the play. I also had a college supervisor that wanted a whistle followed immediately by something like "black 32." The thinking is, if you know what you have instantly it lends credibility to the fact that you had the play all the way. This is very difficult while using your peripheral vision to watch your primary rather than using it to watch your secondary. If we are talking about a defined primary and not a dual/overlapping coverage area there are so many reasons for us not to see something in our partner's primary and so little a reason for us to see something in our partner's primary. So should we put a scientifically proven theory to practice or sit back enjoy the game and bleed into other areas? I think we should talk about and train to officiate in a manner that will get the highest percentage of correct calls.

Absolutely agreed. The point is, when you DO see something that absolutely should be called, call it, even out of your primary.

When we're off ball, we keep tabs with what's going on with the ball since the behavior of the players off the ball keys directly from where the ball is. When you're off ball, you want to know when the ball is coming your way. To do that, you must have some part of your vision in your partner's primary.