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ChuckElias Sun May 02, 2004 09:07pm

Saw this story on SportsCenter over the weekend. Jim Wolf is a MLB umpire. I think he's a rookie as a full-time ref. Problem is, his brother is Randy Wolf, who pitches for the Philadelphia Phillies. Jim actually works Philly's games, and the only restriction is that he can't work the plate when Randy pitches.

Anybody think this is a problem? I thought it was extemely interesting. Here's a link to the ESPN story:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1596708

JRutledge Sun May 02, 2004 09:37pm

No.

He is not going to work the plate. This is not going to happen very often, but when it does he will only work the bases. Which means you really have very little control over the actual game. You might be lucky depending on the where you work, hardly make any calls.

Peace

Mark Dexter Sun May 02, 2004 09:37pm

I wouldn't work a game at all if my brother was on the team - whether he's starting pitcher or eternal benchwarmer.

(Okay, okay - so I've done Little League games involving my brothers' teams - but it's Little League.)

While he may not be calling the balls and strikes, I'd be kinda worried on any sort of balk call - or if all of the umps have to confer on a play . . . doesn't look too good.

TravelinMan Sun May 02, 2004 09:48pm

He should not be allowed to do Philly games at any position.

LDUB Sun May 02, 2004 11:28pm

What a stupid article. A waste of my time. First off the date on it is Aug. 15, 2003. Just a wee bit old. I can sum it up for everyone else. Wolf called a guy on the Phillies safe at first, but tv replays showed he was out. So right away people assume that he is trying to help out the Phillies because his brother is on the team. Come on. Plays are missed every day in the National League and you don't hear about upmires throwing the game. They are just making something out of nothing.

Ohh and by the way I don't think he should do Phillies games.

Nevadaref Mon May 03, 2004 01:28am

I saw a story on this last year on ESPN. I thought it was intriguing. If the league doesn't have a problem with him doing games involving his brother then no one else should either. The league reviews films and grades all of their umpires anyway, if there is a problem they will take care of it.
Do you really think this guy is going to risk losing his job over a call in some meaningless regular season game that won't change how much his brother makes by one cent?

ChuckElias Mon May 03, 2004 08:34am

First of all, I apologize that the article is so old. I honestly didn't see the posting date. I found it very recently the ESPN site after hearing about the story only this past weekend. I'm sorry if the article was a waste of time.

Having said that, I think it's interesting that he's not allowed to work the plate, but only when his brother is pitching. As Rut said, he won't have much influence on the game when his brother is pitching, but if it's the last day of the season, and first place in the division is on the line, he can still work the plate for his brother's team as long as the brother isn't pitching. This could put him in a position to have a huge influence on this pennant-deciding game.

Quote:

Originally posted by Nevadaref
Do you really think this guy is going to risk losing his job over a call in some meaningless regular season game that won't change how much his brother makes by one cent?
No, obviously not. I don't think he'd do it even in a meaningful game. But the reason that I even posted this is b/c this question sometimes comes up on this board. "Should I work a game at the school where my son plays?" That kind of thing. I just thought that it was interesting that the issue arises all the way through the pros.

davidw Mon May 03, 2004 12:20pm

I predict the league will revisit this situation and reverse themselves. Any takers?

Adam Mon May 03, 2004 12:26pm

What happens if they bring his brother in for relief when he's working the plate?
Frankly, this is all about perception and not about reality. Reality is that there's practically zero chance that he'd change a call to help his brother. The perception, however, is what would actually harm MLB. Sometimes, the mere appearance of a conflict of interest is enough to throw a wrench into public relations.

ChuckElias Mon May 03, 2004 01:53pm

Quote:

Originally posted by davidw
I predict the league will revisit this situation and reverse themselves. Any takers?
I don't know if they will, but they should.

ChuckElias Mon May 03, 2004 01:56pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Snaqwells
What happens if they bring his brother in for relief when he's working the plate?
Great point. Hadn't thought of that. I think the player is a starting pitcher, although, obviously he could be brought in for relief.

Quote:

Frankly, this is all about perception

That's amazingly insightful! I should've thought to use that as the title of the thread. Oh, wait. . . :)

Quote:

Reality is that there's practically zero chance that he'd change a call to help his brother. The perception, however, is what would actually harm MLB. Sometimes, the mere appearance of a conflict of interest is enough to throw a wrench into public relations.
I agree 100%. And I think an answer very similar to that is what we tell people when they ask "Should I work a game where my son goes to school?"

LDUB Mon May 03, 2004 02:51pm

So if MLB decides he can't do his brother's games where do they draw the line? What umpire X has been in the league for 10 years. And then a nephew of his makes it to the National League. Can you umpire you nephew's game? What if it was your cousin's? Or you childhood friend? Someday this will come up, so we might as well think about it now.

Adam Mon May 03, 2004 05:17pm

LDUB,
They've already drawn an arbitrary line in deciding he can't work the plate if his brother is pitching. I would say they need to take it a step further and say he can't work games for his brother.
As for how far they take this? Case by case. In general, I'd say that immediate family should be far enough. Father/son, brothers, etc. Uncle/Nephew? Hard to say without knowing the two involved, but I'd be inclined to let it pass.

LDUB Mon May 03, 2004 07:58pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Snaqwells

As for how far they take this? Case by case. In general, I'd say that immediate family should be far enough. Father/son, brothers, etc. Uncle/Nephew? Hard to say without knowing the two involved, but I'd be inclined to let it pass.

But if they are worried enough about him favoiring sides with his brother, why would they not be worried about an umpire's nephew. I know if I was an umpire who was going to favor my brother's team, I would also favor my nephew's team. Now I'm not saying umpires are favoring teams, but what is the difference?

Adam Mon May 03, 2004 10:00pm

The difference is you've got to stop somewhere. If an ump would change a call for his brother, he'd change a call for a graduate of his college, or high school, or whatever. Like I said, it would have to be case by case, and I'd understand if they said an uncle/nephew relationship was too close. Uncle/nephew is marginal, I think brothers are too close.
As I said, I don't think the ump would actually change a call, there's too much scrutiny to do it. However, the average fan doesn't know that, and would see the conflict and overly scrutinize the calls.

LDUB Mon May 03, 2004 11:08pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Snaqwells
As I said, I don't think the ump would actually change a call, there's too much scrutiny to do it. However, the average fan doesn't know that, and would see the conflict and overly scrutinize the calls.
I'm not saying that he will obviously blow a call. But mabye at the end of the game, on a close play at first, a call that could go either way, He might give it to the team that he has family members on. Think about this. The guy's brother is pitching. Gound ball to first, pitcher covering. Bang bang play. Now if he could go either way, he might go with his brother. This is a call directly involving his brother and another player.

I think either MLB should say either he works none of his brother's games, or he is able to work every position (behind the plate) for his games. If you can't trust him at the plate, how can you trust him in the field?

JRutledge Tue May 04, 2004 08:11am

"Conflict."
 
Does anyone realize how hard it is to change any call? Especially in baseball?

It is really hard to do that, for one at least in baseball, plays happen and you just happen to be there. You do not tell the runner to round second and try for that extra base and you automatically make a call before the play gets there. Any umpire with any integrity could not even try to "cheat." This is not basketball where in individual official might have 15-20 calls a game potentially. In baseball with 4 umpires, they might be lucky if they have one call the entire game. And if he is on 3rd base, chances are he will be very possible that he will not have any close plays.

I do not see any problem with this, mainly because there is not much an umpire not behind the plate can influence. Baseball most of the time calls itself.

Peace

CYO Butch Tue May 04, 2004 09:19am

A question to all officials
 
Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge
Does anyone realize how hard it is to change any call? Especially in baseball?

It is really hard to do that, for one at least in baseball, plays happen and you just happen to be there. You do not tell the runner to round second and try for that extra base and you automatically make a call before the play gets there. Any umpire with any integrity could not even try to "cheat." This is not basketball where in individual official might have 15-20 calls a game potentially. In baseball with 4 umpires, they might be lucky if they have one call the entire game. And if he is on 3rd base, chances are he will be very possible that he will not have any close plays.

I do not see any problem with this, mainly because there is not much an umpire not behind the plate can influence. Baseball most of the time calls itself.

Peace

Frankly, I don't see how an official who works with any regularity at all could change his/her behavior for a particular game or situation. Don't all of you work <b>very</b> hard to make all your calls instinctive and automatic? If you had to think through each all as you make it, wouldn't it slow you down tremendously and be very obvious you were struggling? Unlike boxing or ice skating, where the officials' judgments are not displayed until after the fact, sports like baseball and basketball require instantaneous and demonstrable decisions by the officials. Does anyone think they could actually switch their decision making mechanism back and forth between automatic and biased and not have it obvious to everyone?

LDUB Tue May 04, 2004 09:36am

I don't think I am that automatic at all. Espicially calling pitches. After the catcher catches the pitch, I pause and the call strike or ball. The small pause lets me think about the pitch and make the right call.

Everyone says that no umpire could intentionally make the wrong call. Then why will they not let him work the plate for his brother's games? I say he is either working the plate for the games, or he is not allowed to do them at all.

JRutledge Tue May 04, 2004 09:38am

Re: A question to all officials
 
Quote:

Originally posted by CYO Butch

Frankly, I don't see how an official who works with any regularity at all could change his/her behavior for a particular game or situation. Don't all of you work <b>very</b> hard to make all your calls instinctive and automatic? If you had to think through each all as you make it, wouldn't it slow you down tremendously and be very obvious you were struggling? Unlike boxing or ice skating, where the officials' judgments are not displayed until after the fact, sports like baseball and basketball require instantaneous and demonstrable decisions by the officials. Does anyone think they could actually switch their decision making mechanism back and forth between automatic and biased and not have it obvious to everyone?

I completely agree. I work too hard to get in position to be there just for that one moment and most of the time it does not happen. Usually the close play is made on autopilot. Even when you start thinking that "this is my brother or friend," you make a delayed call or not a very good one. Baseball is all about timing when making a call. Too much thinking can drastically affect that timing.

Peace

Adam Tue May 04, 2004 09:52am

Coach, you are right. My point is not that an official or umpire would actually change a call. Only that most people are not aware of the difficulties involved. Should there be a close call that benefits the family member (especially if slow motion replays show it to be wrong), many fans will question the integrity of that official. It's not fair to the official to put him in that position.

JRutledge Tue May 04, 2004 10:42am

And this would be a change because of.........
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Snaqwells
Should there be a close call that benefits the family member (especially if slow motion replays show it to be wrong), many fans will question the integrity of that official. It's not fair to the official to put him in that position.
You do not need a close play to question the integrity of umpires or officials. They do it already. Who cares if that is what fans think. Fans think the NBA wants and uses the official to help them win the NBA Championship.

Peace

Adam Tue May 04, 2004 12:45pm

Re: And this would be a change because of.........
 
Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge
Quote:

Originally posted by Snaqwells
Should there be a close call that benefits the family member (especially if slow motion replays show it to be wrong), many fans will question the integrity of that official. It's not fair to the official to put him in that position.
You do not need a close play to question the integrity of umpires or officials. They do it already. Who cares if that is what fans think. Fans think the NBA wants and uses the official to help them win the NBA Championship.

Peace

Point taken. I just think a family relationship opens itself up to all sorts of misconceptions. Sometimes, to maintain the impression of integrity, you must go above and beyond the minimum requirements.

As a loan processor at a major mortgage company, I am not allowed to actually sell real estate (a potential part time job) because of the potential for appearances. There is no way I could actually affect anything due to effective checks and balances, but the distance must be maintained to prevent problems from occurring from a potential conflict of interest. We are also not allowed to process loans of friends and family.
I see this as similar.

JRutledge Tue May 04, 2004 12:58pm

Re: Re: And this would be a change because of.........
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Snaqwells


Point taken. I just think a family relationship opens itself up to all sorts of misconceptions. Sometimes, to maintain the impression of integrity, you must go above and beyond the minimum requirements.

As a loan processor at a major mortgage company, I am not allowed to actually sell real estate (a potential part time job) because of the potential for appearances. There is no way I could actually affect anything due to effective checks and balances, but the distance must be maintained to prevent problems from occurring from a potential conflict of interest. We are also not allowed to process loans of friends and family.
I see this as similar.

I think anyone on that level has worked too hard to let their integrity get in the way. But MLB has made some provisions to prevent as much "potential" of appearances as possible. I think we can take it too far. Considering that many umpires come up with players and could know them for years as a result, I would be more concerned about those situations where no one knows that relationship than a brother than might work a base where no play is made.

MLB for once is doing the right thing.

Peace


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