Jumper A1 jumps into jumper B1 at jump to start the game. Not incidental contact, both feet came down on other side of the line. What should the call be on this? I believe I blew it by calling a jump ball violation, but should have called a foul (pushing?).

If the contact caused by A1 was at the level of contact that would have induced you to call a foul at any other point in the game, then yes. If not, then no.

Only you can decide, since determining the level of contact that you would consider worthy of a foul call is totally subjective.

Did you ask your partner later? If so, what did she/he say? (can you tell Juulie's influence here?)

In fact, I called a flagrant foul on a jump ball once. A1 was so intent on winning jump he just about took B1's head off. He was big time player for Shaker HS in Albany, NY who eventually went on to lead the nation in rebounding at some small D1 college in Connecticut.

Hmm.. did he commit the foul before the ball was touched.

F-foul before any time comes off the clock. LOL

JR - that's right. Would have seemed this rough play portended a long night for my partner and me. But the game concluded without any further incidents. Perhaps the F-foul call helped.

Just to answer Champ's (or is it TJ's?) original question, there is no jump ball violation for landing in the "other" half of the jump circle. So if jumping across the line creates contact that puts the other jumper at a disadvantage, it has to be a foul. If it doesn't cause a disadvantage, then it's nothing.

I felt he obtained an advantage by jumping into the other guy. Are you serious that this should have been ruled a flagrant if contact happened before time ran off. I couldn't find anything in rule book on that. It certainly wasn't excessive contact.

I apologize if there is some misunderstanding, but where do I say it should have been ruled a flagrant IF CONTACT OCCURRED BEFORE TIME RAN OUT? My point was you can call a foul including a flagrant foul at the tap. I called a flagrant because of the severity of the contact. The fact that no time ran off the clock doesn't preclude calling a foul. Other examples, player dunks ball in pre-game warmups. Technical with no time off clock.

Champ, I meant "before time ran off" not "out".

I misinterpreted JR's response. I'm new to reffing and am learning a lot from this site. You guys are great.

I didn't see the contact, so I don't know whether I'd judge it as flagrant or not.

However, you can certainly have a flagrant foul at any point (inclusive) between when the official's jurisdiction begins and when the referee approves the final score.

In this case, it could even be a flagrant personal foul, because the ball is live once it leaves the R's hands.

Uh-oh...Rainmakers gonna get you for calling us all "guys"...

Sorry.

Guys and Rocky.....

http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/thumbs.gif
http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/roflmao.gif