First thing,Seasons Greetings To Everyone!
For the last 9 years as a official I have been over weight!
At the end of the summer I finally did some hard work on myself,And the results have been excellent.For the first time since becoming a official,I have started the season in shape.To my surprise I have been getting very nice compliments from my fellow officials. And believe it or not even coaches and players have said they see a difference in my apearence.Since loosing the weight, I have had the opportunity to work games and not even sweat! My outlook as a official has changed so much,I have always went to camp out of shape, And now I can't wait to go to camp for the first time honestly in shape.The question I would like to present is " How Much Has Your Apearence Hurt You,Or Helped You As A Referee?

Helped me
 

I am very slim and athletic and it has seemed to help me. In all my evaluations in camp, I get complemented about my look. I am one of the few officials that do not have a bear belly or look like they struggle to get up and down the court.

Re: Helped me
 

I certainly don't have a beer belly, since I don't drink. I prefer to call it a baby belly, but I don't have any trouble getting up and down the court. But I have had people point out my appearance in my evals usually politely such as, "Needs to lose weight" "looks a little heavy". Last year I lost 50 lbs from Jan to June and I could tell the difference! My mentor also notices and told me I might be able to get some varsity games next year, but only if I lose weight. So apparently it is affecting my progress, at least a little.

Rut, be careful...
 

Rut,

The original question was "how has your appearance helped or hurt YOU?". Your last comment about "other officials" may rub some people wrong. Just an observation. :)

Re: Rut, be careful...
 

If that rubs them the wrong way, so be it. Assignors tell you flat out (at least where I am from) that officials could afford to lose weight. At a HS and college evaluation camp, the evaluators told several people to lose 10 pounds or more. I was at an association meeting, and where an assignor for college told the entire room, that certain individuals that would try to go to his camp this upcoming summer, needed to lose weight if they wanted to do college games for him.

The reality we are judged on our apperance, that is a fact. Coaches and players judge us on how much we weigh and other features. I wore my glasses one time for an evaluation session I had with one assignor, and he flat out asked me did I have contacts. Now ask me if I ever have my glasses on during a game?

I say this not to offend anyone, but the beer belly look will hurt you. I may not stay in the gym year round, but with all my sports that I officiate and the working out I do during some off time is vital to the way I look. And I am still not satified with everything and the way I look (this really is not about officiating). But if you look like you cannot keep up, no matter how good your calls are, it will be assumed that you were not in position or had trouble to get into position. That is just the facts, and aske any college assignor, and they will tell you much of the same.

Appearance
 

Unfortunately, I strongly believe Rut is absolutely correct on this one . I know some officials who can stay with anyone at any level who are in great shape but don't look good and they are held back for that reason . It's a shame but that's the way it is. What does the Commish have to say on this one???

It appears that this topic has "hit a nerve" with a few of the "regulars."

I would tend to agree with Rut on this... Just as in all other aspects of life, appearance is a sizeable portion of the "judgement." I know that I am one of the guys who don't "look the part" and accept that I have two choices: 1.) lose the weight, or 2.) accept that I will be passed over for upper level assignments. That is indeed a fact of life.

What do you do about it?

Determine your priorities and react accordingly.

Your responses are welcome, and encouraged!

ding-ding (bell sound)
 

I never questioned the fact that an overweight official is definitely behind the curve (pun intended:)) when we are talking about career progression. My post was to point out that I thought you turned the question around a bit to toot your own horn.

Now let's rumble. ;)

I don't care what you do in life. If you are healthy and a reasonable weight, you have an advantage on everyone else. This is especially true when you are around atheletes. There is nothing uglier then a fat, overweight person, judging trim inshape, atheletes. I resented them when I ran track in HS and as a basketball official, I would rather work a game with a man who looks like he belongs there and not someone who looks like he just rolled off the sofa. Saying that, I could stand to lose two inches around my waist and add sum bulk to the arms. We had one man from our associatioin go Div 1 three years ago and the comment was that it was the way he always looked like an athelete that got him the job.

Re: ding-ding (bell sound)
 

:rolleyes: If you feel that is tooting my own horn, then you need to be clearer on the question you asked. What are you talking about then? Appearence has helped me greatly. Ever game I go to it is one of the main things the evaluators make about me. They do not talk about judgement as much or even my mechnics, they talk about I am agile, slim and athletic looking. I even had an assignor tell me that he needed more Black officials, which I am. Now did that help me in that case, yes. So what are you getting at. If you are talking about uniform then you need to be a little more specific than saying just appearence. I think everyone else was thinking the same thing I was.

NEWSFLASH!
 

I never asked a question...

Re: Then what the hell is your point?
 

glad you asked...
 

My point was...

...it seemed that you were putting others down to make yourself appear better. I'm sure you are slim and I'm sure you are athletic, I don't doubt that at all. But saying that "you are one of the few officials that do not have a beer belly or look like they struggle to get up and down the court" was a poor choice of words. Would you stand in front of your peers, your friends, your co-officials and say this?

Not everyone desires to work the NBA/WNBA. They realize they'll never be slim or athletic. A lot of guys/gals officiate to "give something back" or help out a kid's league.

Be proud of your conditioning. It is a great quality to have, but try to shy away from the comments that may offend others.

Now gimme some love, JR :)

Re: glad you asked...
 

If you have known anything about me, I have no desire to do the NBA or WNBA. What I am talking about, believe it or not is HIGH SCHOOL BASKETBALL!!!!! Many of the assignors that I come in contact with are college officials and assignors themselves. They hold some of the same values that they hold at the college level. The camps that I am telling you about are strictly HS level camps. I am in no way trying to rub that in your face, personally I really do not care, I am telling you what the powers that be want and that was the question that was asked. "How much has your appearance hurt you, or helped you as an referee?" If that is the question that was asked, then I am telling you and others that it helped me.

Believe it or not, coaches have much to do with this. They ask the assignors to find what is acceptable, and they do not want officials that have bellys sticking way out officiating their games. They do not want someone that is having trouble following the play or keeping up. Now that might hurt some feelings, but it is the truth. And if you are one of those people, then maybe you need to evaluate what kind of shape that you are in, because believe it or not, it does make a difference.

Rut,

I GET THE POINT ABOUT THE BELLY THING. By the way, I'm 6'2", 185, so not a problem here.

My point was not about the bellies. LOL, that sounds funny!

I understood.
 

I know what your point was. I just did not agree with it.

I can accept that.

Made for some interesting conversation though. :)

Re: Helped me
 

Given the choice between a beer belly and a bear belly (the belly of a large heavy mammal having long shaggy hair, rudimentary tail, and plantigrade feet and feeding largely on fruit and insects as well as flesh), I'd take the beer belly; at least getting that one can be enjoyable.

Re: Re: Helped me
 

Either one is bad, but showing up with a bare belly is even worse (unless you're part of the half-time entertainment).

BigDave, I think you are the one making a mountain out of a mole hill here. J has apperently done somthing right in his short career as a basketball official and I think what that is is his physicial conditioning. There is nothing wrong with having overweight officials in your organization but the the ones who are the "right" size have an advantage over those who are overweight.

BTW, every evaluation form I have ever seen starts off by having a question on physicial appearance. Second question is over the uniform.

I agree with Rut!
 

I have never disagreed that weight/physical appearance is a MAJOR factor in this business. It is probably THE most important aspect of being evaluated. OK, is that clear now?

My point was/is/has been/always will be that Rut was bashing other officials with his "bear belly" comment. Am I the only one that felt this way? Everyone else thought is was just fine to downtalk other officials? In my association, you just don't do that. Yes, we have some fat asses. They know who they are. But we would NEVER compare our "slim, athletic" selves to these guys the way Rut did. Wouldn't it have been a little more professional to say that "we have some folks that could work on their conditioning a little."?

Guess the mole hill just got a little taller... :)

[Edited by BigDave on Dec 29th, 2000 at 08:41 PM]

Nah!
 

Big Dave,
That is just Rut.
He is who he is.
If they look like a fat duck, walk like a fat duck, quack like a fat duck, they probably are fat ducks... including the bear bellies.
mick

Big Dave
 

Agree with you completely re: professionalism and how we speak about fellow officials- some people will have to learn that you can't get by on "looks' alone-Professionalism-Proper Attitude- Receptiveness to Criticism and Courage are all attributes that are pre-requisites to progress in this game!

I am not they person.
 

The beer belly comment, came from a assignor that said this to a entire room of officials. So if that offends you, take it to the people that do the hiring, I am just passing the information. And I know for a fact that assignors told some people to lose specific weight, like "10 pounds or else." Now that might be harsh and may rub some people the wrong way, but that is what was said. Take it or leave it.

My,My Rut
You are sure easy to get to- coaches must have a field day with you-Have fun

Re: I do not know what happen here!!!!
 

[

[Edited by JRutledge on Dec 29th, 2000 at 10:44 PM]

Wow!!!!
 

:rolleyes:

A question was asked, I answered it and I am not the one talking about how upset it made me because you or anyone else answered a question. Think what you want, I have information you can take it or leave it. If it does not apply to you, then let it go, if it does maybe that is why you were offended. If I am fat, I am fat.

Ask anyone that works with me, I almost always ask what I did wrong or what did they see I need to improve on. I even ask about calls. There is nothing about wrong with critisism, it is how you take it. There is nothing to get upset about, and you got upset. I am sitting back and having a laugh about the whole situation.



[Edited by Admin on Jan 3rd, 2001 at 05:03 PM]

Don't lose your cool ref if I'm getting to you why don't you give me a T ? Rut , seriously , you are just digging a big hole for yourself in full view of your peers- give it a rest!

Helllllooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!
 

Peace!!!! ;)


[Edited by Admin on Jan 3rd, 2001 at 05:06 PM]

I hope seriously, for the game, that your evaluator has been monitoring your diatrabe and gets you out of the game.

RUT
 

By the way,
Do you have the E-mail address of your Pres. Assignor , or commissioner.
Please forward.

That makes sense
 

Now I have to get out of the game because you (from Canada I might add, and did not realize that most of the officials on this board did not answer to Hank Nichols of the NCAA) disagree with me. Yeah, that makes perfect sense. This is not the basketball court and you do not know me!!!!! Because I give a crap about what you think (and you are from Canada, I might add) about an issue that is obviously regional at best. I live in Illinois, in Illinois we do things differently from Michigan or Georgia, or California, or New York State. I say this because Mick (who lives in Michigan), who I have much respect for lives in a state that has the girls season before the boys season. Now because I do football and many other basketball officials that I know do too, I just would not be doing girls basketball. I do not know if Mick cares either way, but that is how I feel. And since I live close to Iowa, they have the same officials do Girls and Boys varsity in the same night. Most Illinois officials that "I" know, would be upset if they had to do both boys and girls in one night. And I know Iowa officials that love the system they are under. More power to you and anyone else that disagrees with each other, but here in the U.S. we are entitled to do that. And I respect everyone's right to have their own opinion.

We cannot even agree with each other from different states, how in the world do you think I am going to agree with people in other parts of the world about a sport that is not approached with the same passion as it is here. Kids do not grow up here and play hockey or soccer for fun the same way we play basketball and football in this state. I just came from one of the biggest holiday tournaments in the country at the HS level and it is snowing constantly and the visibility is horrible and the gym was packed. Now would that passion for the sport be the same in California or West Virginia? I really do not know.

We are not going to see the world the same, get over it!!!!!!!!

Re: Take your pick.
 

Which one, there is not one person that does any kind of assigning like that. And I would not have the time because this year alone I have probably worked for 40 different people. So I would not know where to start.

Again, you have not answereed my question- please read my last thread.
It doesn't matter that I'm from Canada. What matters is that I, and many of the officials on this site, understand, and we are trying to help you. Besides the game was invented by a Canadian- Mr. Naismith- And that's a Fact!!!!!

We are not going to agree on this.
 

Again, we are not going to agree on this. I really do not care where the game was "so called" invented, like that was the point. But my point is where we are today. Most of the United States might be under NF rules, but we all do not go by the same rules. Many states have their own rules and own styles in mechanics and practices. So the fact that you live in Canada and I live in a certain state in the United States is the problem.

I go to several camps a year, I have never, never, and I mean never heard them tell us to do what you suggest, period!!! And the tournament I came from tonite and the officials there, would think you are nuts in what you believe. But I am the one that needs help?
:confused:


[Edited by JRutledge on Dec 30th, 2000 at 02:29 AM]

Re: We are not going to agree on this.
 

:rolleyes: Naismith thought of the game in Canada and had the first game played in Ohio, I believe. But who cares? :p

Give me one name and I will have done the game a service!!!
Are you afraid? I am only going to submit the opinions you have submitted on this site! Take a chance! If You win I quit after 40 years!!!

I am not in good faith....
 

Going to give you any name of anyone.

If you are upset about the fat thing, then you need to ask them yourself. As I told you, this assignor made this comment to a room full of people telling them what they were looking for in college officials. As a matter of fact, he made a comment about himself and the weight he could afford to lose. And when he talked about physical appearance, he brought up things like gender, race, weight. So if you do not want to believe that, that is your problem. But I am not going to give you friends names or people that I work with because you do not agree with what is asked of us officals in my neck of the woods. You might be a serial killer, I have know way of knowing. If it makes you happy and you do a little research, you can get many assignors in all kinds of ways. That information is all over the place and sometimes on the web, so be my guest, find it yourself. How do you think I found out that information myself.

I am an independent contractor, there is not a single person that has that much affect on my career or anyone else that I have ever come in contact with. If one person will not hire you, there are several that will.


[Edited by Admin on Jan 3rd, 2001 at 05:05 PM]

What Helped Me Loose Weight!
 

I must share this story with my fellow officials. In the summer of 1998 I attended a camp in Virgina, Now, I already knew that I was out of shape,But decided to go anyway because you can still learn and improve as a official even if you are out of shape!Now back to the story,On the last night of this camp they have what is called NBA night. Where you buy a $1.00 raffle ticket,And when one of the staff members( One of the NBA officials on staff) pulls your number out of a hat,you have 30 seconds to go to the front of the room and pick a prize off of the table.When he got to my number,This paticular staff member discribe me as a referee that looked like he was 9 months pregnant! Now did that hurt my feelings? Hell yeah! But after that expierence, I said I am going to loose this weight! And this is my first time sharing this story with anyone.And you know what, I am looking forward to seeing him again. Now! A funny thing also happened to me,One of the organizations I belong to called SUBOA issued all of the officials numbers to be worn on the back of our referee game shirts. I got number 56 the same number as the staff member who's comment helped me to loose weight!

"Imprisoned in every fat man a thin one is wildly signaling to be let out."
Cyril Vernon Connolly, The Unquiet Grave, 1945

Appearance
 

I am a firefighter/paramedic on my normal job, and one thing that has struck me is that no one is talking about how it affects them physically. I had to try to resuscitate a HS footbal ref (without success) because he had a beer belly and a huge cardiac history. I just got off knee surgery, myself, and am working very hard to get back into shape. Does someone know how many refs are hauled to the hospital or die each year during the game? I am not sure, and if someone knows, speak up. Thanks!
Matt

Re: Appearance
 

I do not know how many, but I do know of an official had a heart attack and lived during a game. But he was slim and you would think an athletic person. But I am sure the more weight you have on you, it probably heightens the probablility of physical problems. But that is just what I know about weight and how it affects you.

Looking the part
 

I do believe that you have to look the part. I am a few pounds over weight my self. I do get up and down the court and can run with the best of them. We don't have any rules in our association about weight. We do have officials that will not get varisty games because they are overweight. I will be working on my weight because I want to go to camps this summer and don't want to look like a slob.

JRutledge,

Please send me an E-Mail, would like to talk about life in Northern Illinois.

Correction: I have seen BEER BELLYS but never a BEAR BELLY except on a BEAR ! ! !

Later

running technique
 

Y'all,

Good to be back on topic. My story (which is kinda long, feel free to skip it):

This is my fifth year doing HS girls' games, second year on the varsity list. Once I got comfortable on the court, my evaluations started following a general pattern: "Reffed a good game, good judgement, good positioning...here are a few things you can improve...and oh, by the way, has anyone talked to you about the way you run? You look kinda funny out there..."

Yes, my name is Paul, and I run wrong. ("Hi, Paul.")

I'm tall and thin, but my appearance problem has always been that I don't look right when I run. All of my evaluators agreed that I didn't run correctly, but no two could agree on how to fix it. "Pump your arms more." "Get your knees higher." "Get up on the balls of your feet." "No, run heel-toe." "Kick backwards so you look like you're really moving." I became obsessed with "running right." I checked out books on running: they all said "whatever you do naturally is probably right." Clearly, these authors had never seen me run! Net result: I was terribly confused about what to do, and horribly frustrated because I felt that this would put a glass ceiling on my officiating progress (kinda like being overweight does, I'm sure).

But then I went to camp this summer...where I ran into an evaluator who really, really put it into perspective for me. He said he really liked the game I called--he could tell I was sincere, knew the game, and could manage the game. He gave me a great compliment, telling me that "I've seen you work, and I know I'd put you on any game, no matter how big." So, just as my ego was getting big, he said: "But first impressions are everything, and no matter how good a game you have, they'll remember you as the ref that runs funny. So until you get this licked, you're going to have problems."

So I went home, and decided to give a good deal of my money to a personal trainer (a former Russian Olympic distance runner!) She busted my butt for a couple months, and for the first time, I wasn't out of shape when the season started this year. Also, my camp evaluator said he'd call my assignor to put in a good word for me...that certainly doesn't hurt! Anyway, the story right now...nobody (evaluators, friends, anyone else) has said a word about my running yet this year. I may get through the whole season without hearing about how I look on the floor! And it's nice to know that I'll be evaluated on my judgement, positioning, and game management this year instead of appearance. Not that it's wrong to point out my appearance--I have no problem with the people who did that (after all, in our avocation, perception is reality). But I think now, like the guy at camp, they're really looking at my game instead of at my looks.

Anyway...to answer the original question...yeah, my appearance has impacted my career. But I'm getting past it now, I think.

Thanks for reading--
Paul

[Edited by Paul in Seattle on Jan 1st, 2001 at 03:50 PM]

Re: running technique
 

Good post, Paul.

How Much Has Your Apearence Hurt You,Or Helped You As A Referee?
 

Paul,
Thank you so much For your great post!
I thought your story was right on time.As a official I need to get honest about what's going on with me in this advocation.I need to talk about my shortcomings as a official,So I can get the much needed help from my peers.It's the stuff I don't want to share with my peers is the stuff that I need to share.Fellow officials I need your help!

Paul,
Good post. I too have had comments about the way I run. My problem is that I am a cross country runner by nature and I am very fixed in my ways. The only way to really deal with it is to watch yourself on film from time to time so you can pick out what needs fixed in your running style. Think about the closed fist, heal to to running when joggin down court, etc. I don't think you should be thinking about it when chasing a fast break but only when following the play up court. I called several games at the Air Force Academy in the fencing room. They had mirrors all over the place so I was thinking about my style all the time during those games. It helped. But now that you mentioined it here, I will check out my form this weekend when we start back up.

Well I am 6'1" and before the season started I weighed in at a paltry 250.

Now I have not found my weight to be a problem. I have been to two state tournaments and done the final both times.

I have officiated JC ball for three years and received an NCAA DIII and DII Contract this year.

Has this motivated me to loose weight...HECK YES! 235lbs. today. (Even after Christmas)

Did I need to loose weight to get there....NO!

SO go figure that....I don't know........

It does matter
 

I have never been a fast runner. So, it has taken some work to ensure I stay to ref the rebound, yet still get to the other end in time. At this point I've had recent feedback that I'm accomplishing that goal.

Still, I had an evaluator level with me on the appearance. I had a couple of quirks in my running that made me look slow, regardless of my actual speed. (Just what I needed!) He made some suggestions, and I'm trying to be consistent with the fixes.

He also commented on the extra weight I carry. That too will make me look slow. How much extra do I have? About 10-15 lbs. Actually, a couple fewer by now.

It all makes a difference.

Ron,
I know it has been a year since I last saw you, but 250 lbs? I never had you pegged for that much. Good job in taking some of it off.