More struggling by NIT officials

[Nevadaref]

I do not mean to be slamming the guys working the NIT. I'm sure that they are normally quite good. But they have really had a tough week. I am not trying to nitpick their calls or judgment, but when they are missing obvious calls that we get right in HS games, I think there is room for criticism.

Situation:
2nd half of Notre Dame v. Purdue with 3:09 remaining and Notre Dame leading 58-54.

Notre Dame has the ball and is trying to run some clock. A player picks up his dribble out high maybe 10 feet above the top of the key. He attempts a hand-off to Chris Thomas who is cutting hard between the player holding the ball and the division line. The ball bounces off of Thomas's body and then bounces in the front court maybe a foot from the division line. The ball bounces up and breaks the plane of the division line, while keeping both feet on the floor in the front court, Thomas reaches over and grabs the ball.
The Trail official was working in the range of the 28 ft line and had to run back to cover the play. Unfortunately, he did not get there in time and had to guess. He called a backcourt violation, probably believing that the ball hit the division line when it bounced. The replays clearly showed that it did not.

PS I am not an ND fan, nor do I care who wins a game between two teams from the state of Indiana.

[Rich]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
I do not mean to be slamming the guys working the NIT. I'm sure that they are normally quite good. But they have really had a tough week. I am not trying to nitpick their calls or judgment, but when they are missing obvious calls that we get right in HS games, I think there is room for criticism.

Situation:
2nd half of Notre Dame v. Purdue with 3:09 remaining and Notre Dame leading 58-54.

Notre Dame has the ball and is trying to run some clock. A player picks up his dribble out high maybe 10 feet above the top of the key. He attempts a hand-off to Chris Thomas who is cutting hard between the player holding the ball and the division line. The ball bounces off of Thomas's body and then bounces in the front court maybe a foot from the division line. The ball bounces up and breaks the plane of the division line, while keeping both feet on the floor in the front court, Thomas reaches over and grabs the ball.
The Trail official was working in the range of the 28 ft line and had to run back to cover the play. Unfortunately, he did not get there in time and had to guess. He called a backcourt violation, probably believing that the ball hit the division line when it bounced. The replays clearly showed that it did not.

PS I am not an ND fan, nor do I care who wins a game between two teams from the state of Indiana.

You really think these don't get missed in high school games?

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

You really think these don't get missed in high school games?

Not by US!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Nevadaref

Not by US!

Better make that not by YOU. Most of US do miss a call every now and then. And usually we're lucky enough to have partners that won't crap all over us when we do.

[Hawks Coach]

This sounds more like a guess than a miss - a miss to me is different. Call what you see. I would expect that from a post-season official.

[Nevadaref]

You're right Hawks Coach. That was the heart of what made me post this play. The trail official was being lazy and clearly didn't move out high enough to actually see the play, so he simply guessed from a bad angle and got it wrong.
And my opinion is that the quality officials who contribute to this board would not have done that and consequently wouldn't have made an incorrect call on this play.
PS JR, you're getting cranky. Is it past your bed time?

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
This sounds more like a guess than a miss - a miss to me is different. Call what you see. I would expect that from a post-season official.

First camp I ever went to, I was told, "All your bad calls should be no-calls". If you blow the whistle, you should be sure you saw an infraction. If you're not sure, there's no whistle.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
You're right Hawks Coach. That was the heart of what made me post this play. The trail official was being lazy and clearly didn't move out high enough to actually see the play, so he simply guessed from a bad angle and got it wrong.
And my opinion is that the quality officials who contribute to this board would not have done that and consequently wouldn't have made an incorrect call on this play.
PS JR, you're getting cranky. Is it past your bed time?

Any "quality" official" on this board who says that they never miss a call or make a wrong call is full of sh*t. And being caught out of position once doth not a "lazy" official make. Similarly, missing a call or making a wrong call doth not a bad official make. Bad officials do not get assigned to NIT play-off games. Not being cranky. Just giving you my opinion.

[Hawks Coach]

Please note for the record that I never made an accusation of laziness

However, I do question judgment on a phantom call - you need to be sure, not guessing.

[CYO Butch]

I was really impressed by the fact that the color commentator (don't know who it was) didn't berate the official for the wrong call. He even took the opportunity to slam instant replay, then subsequently to knock Perdue for not taking advantage of the turn-over. WOW, an announcer who doesn't blame the refs for everything. That was almost as startling as the Wizzards beating the Kings shortly afterwards.

p.s. I usually don't care about the NBA in any way, it was just that a guy at work had made a comment about something was just as likely to happen as the Wizzards beating the Kings, so when the trailer showed them leading, I switched over to that game after the NIT game ended.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach

However, I do question judgment on a phantom call - you need to be sure, not guessing.

Please note for the record that I never disagreed with this at all. On the contrary, I fully agree with your statement.

What I don't agree with was the inference that so-called "quality" officials would NEVER have this happen to them. Unfortunately, imo it's happened to every one of us at one time or another. Except Nevadaref obviously. When this happens, nobody feels worse than the guy that it happened to. And that mistake certainly doesn't mean that the guy isn't a good official either. You just learn from it(hopefully) and move on. That was my point, Coach, and I think that it was Rich's point also.

[Rich]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
This sounds more like a guess than a miss - a miss to me is different. Call what you see. I would expect that from a post-season official.

Perhaps. Or perhaps there were a ton of lines/mascots/etc at the center of the court.

Lazy? How many times does an official look off ball and the ball jumps out to midcourt and the official has to hustle back to the midcourt line?

I just don't understand why anyone would come on here and say officials are struggling cause they miss ONE call.

--Rich

[canuckrefguy]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
The trail official was being lazy and clearly didn't move out high enough to actually see the play, so he simply guessed from a bad angle and got it wrong.

Hmmmm, sounds like a MISTAKE to me. You remember what mistakes are, eh? Those things you used to make before you became perfect?

And my opinion is that the quality officials who contribute to this board would not have done that and consequently wouldn't have made an incorrect call on this play.

Maybe not, but the quality officials on this board can likely think of hundreds of other calls they kicked.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

First camp I ever went to, I was told, "All your bad calls should be no-calls". If you blow the whistle, you should be sure you saw an infraction. If you're not sure, there's no whistle.

Chuck:

That is very good advice. I was told never call what you cannot see. While we all want to see the obvious infractions called, I think it is far worse for an official to make a call when that official did not see what happened and can only guess as to what happened. Like the saying goes: Call the obviouse.

MTD, Sr.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Any "quality" official" on this board who says that they never miss a call or make a wrong call is full of sh*t. And being caught out of position once doth not a "lazy" official make. Similarly, missing a call or making a wrong call doth not a bad official make. Bad officials do not get assigned to NIT play-off games. Not being cranky. Just giving you my opinion.

I thought I made a mistake once, but I was mistaken about thinking that I had made a mistake. I guess that is why my eyes are the color of horse manure.

MTD, Sr.