In a recent game I was playing against a friend, he was driving toward the hoop and then stopped dribbling. To make it hard to shoot I guarded him closely(standing right next to him). Because he had no decent shot, he bounced the ball off my thigh, and proceeded to dribble again.

Isn't this type of situation a double dribble?

He says "no" because it is a pass that is deflected by me. He adds that he should know because "I'm a REF!!!"

How is it a pass when he just taps it off my body? Do you guys know if the rules speak to this kind of situation?

Any help would clear up alot of flared tempers.

Thanks,

Gil

Are we talking HS rules, NCAA rules, or FIBA rules?

Seriously.
A couple of things. First, in pickup ball you have to go with agreed upon rules. My advice here is just to go with it, and use it against him sometime.
Secondly, by throwing it off of your body, he is ending player control (as long as he loses possession) and may retrieve the ball with a new dribble.
Thirdly, I'm assuming you were essentially standing over him with your arms up, and weren't able to hit the ball with your hands. Don't guard him so closely. Back off a half-step and allow yourself reaction time to defend against this.
Fourth, in one-on-one ball, a lot of guys make allowances for the fact you can't pass once you lose your dribble.

Welcome to the board, Gil.

You friend is right. No double dribble. Your friend's initial dribble ended and he lost player control when the ball left his hands and then went off of you. When he regained player control, it is now legal for him to dribble again. If he just touched you with the ball and it never left his hands, then it woulda been a double dribble because he never did lose player control.

Yeah,

From your guys' descriptions, there is still one grey area that he uses as logic, and that is player control. He says he loses player control when it is tapped off my body. Therefore he may dribble again.

However, I believe since the ball only travels a couple inches when he bounces it off my leg it is never really out of his control.

Does control of the ball mean you are physically tounching it at all times?

I also add that bounces off the backs of players on inbounds plays under the basket are a different situation altogher because that is not a possesion and all you can do is pass.

Thanks,

Gil

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I was at the game in question and the play was legal. Besides I thought you intentionally fouled your opponent and had I been working this game would have ejected you post haste. :)

If it's out of his hands, and bounces off of another player, he gets a new dribble. I hate to tell you this, but your the one trying to create a gray area and use logic where it's not necessary.
In order to have control, you have to either be holding or dribbling it. When he bounces it off of you, he does neither. The ball doesn't even have to touch the floor.
Sorry, but your friend is right.

Player control means that you are holding the ball or dribbling it. If it leaves your friends hands on a pass or a shot, and then touches another player- no matter what team that player is on, then player control is lost. If your dribble touches another player before you can dribble again, you also have lost player control. If you shoot the ball and it doesn't reach the backboard, you have lost player contol.In all of these cases, you can legally go get the ball and dribble again.

You go up for shot, defender smacks ball before release, it comes loose, you grab it out of the air and return to floor holding it. Travel, right? Doesn't the PC argument apply here?

That's a held ball.

Nope. It's nothing. Not a held ball, not a travel or any other violation.

The ball was knocked out of the shooter's control by the defense. The shooter can catch the ball, land, and dribbler if they so choose.

If the ball is knocked loose by the defense, it's nothing. If the defense prevents a release, it's a held ball. If you judge that the shooter could have released the ball, it could be a travel. That would be rare, though.