Here's the sitch:

8 point game, 1 minute to go in the 4th.

The team losing was already "trying to foul".

Team in the lead has the ball for a backcourt endline throw-in, after a TO.

B1 reaches through the boundary plane, and, actually, steps through the plane, and hug-fouls the thrower-in. Not sure if B1 knew the difference between live ball/dead ball, but clearly had intent to prevent the clock from starting.

Ruling?

My understanding is that this would be an intentional foul. Forget the warning for delay of game and go straight to free throws and award the ball back to a at the nearest spot to where the foul occurred.

This is a "T"......and nothing else. Go shoot the 2 shots, and then inbound the ball at half court.

See NF case book 10.3.12c
This is an intentional personal foul(whether or not a previous warning had been issued or not) and if no prior
warning this would also be given with the foul.

Is it possible to have an intentional technical foul?

If so, how would it come about?

I don't think that 10.3.12c would apply to this question...in that case the clock is running after a made basket...in this case it is a stopped clock. That is why I think the "T" is the right call.

Dennis my friend i think you are wrong. If the player had just slapped the ball then you could give a 'T', however fouling a player who is holding a ball out of bounds is allways going to be at min. an intentional foul. You could eject the player is the foul was extremely bad.

A better question to the first post would be, after shooting the 2 free throws and returning to the baseline for a throw in should team 'A' be entitled to run the baseline.(assuming that we had a valid basket before the time out).

keep smiling
SH

Dennis,

It doesn't matter that the clock is stopped. It's a live ball foul, not a dead ball foul. That's the determining factor and for that reason, it's intentional foul.

Tony

SH,

No, Team A would not be allowed to run the baseline. It's no different than any other time a foul would occur, after a basket but before the throw-in was complete.

Tony

Tony,

My understanding is that this year the rule changed so that a team who has the right to run the baseline and is fouled doesn't lose that right. Maybe i am wrong.

Play..

Team 'B' scores a valid goal. Team 'A' is allowed to run the baseline on the throw-in, Team 'B' fouls. Team 'A' maintains the right to run the baseline.(if the ball is to be taken out on the baseline.)

I don't see how a intentional foul or a technical foul changes this.

You're correct for NCAA rules.


Under FED rules, the team does lose the right to run the baseline.

If they touch the ball 1st, it is a T. If he touched the player 1st, it is an intentional foul. They get a spot throw in nearest the foul, baseline privs are gone.

DENNIS IS RIGHT!
 

Sounds like another NBA-influenced play...maybe the player was trying to get a delay of game warning and see what the offense was gonna run!

Technically (pun intended), it should be a Tech. The twist on this sitch is the player doesn't just break the plane with a reach, he/she walks OOB to give the thrower-in a hug.

NFHS 10-3-4: A player shall not: Leave the court for an unauthorized reason or delay returning after legally being out of bounds.

Any contact that happens subsequent to the whistle, unless deemed flagrant or intentional, is incidental since the ball becomes dead with the T.

However, if you choose to ALSO enforce the contact, then you have CAN ALSO have an intentional or flagrant dead ball foul = another T.

NFHS 4-19-5c: A technical foul is...an intentional or flagrant contact foul while the ball is dead

Summing up, for this sitch:

* Cannot just have an intentional.

* At a minimum, it is a T for leaving the floor (not breaking the plane which requires contact with the ball)

* If you choose to enforce contact, you have 2 Ts on the same player. "see 'ya...wouldn't wanna be 'ya"

btw - I would merely call the T.

[Edited by pizanno on Dec 18th, 2000 at 04:09 PM]

Actually, you and Dennis are both wrong...read Case Book 10.3.12A...it specifically says "B2 crosses the boundary plane and fouls A1"...the ruling: Intentional Foul...further, Case Book play 10.3.12C has A2 stepping out of bounds to foul the thrower and asks the question "Is the foul personal or technical? Ruling: This is an intentional personal foul"...hope this helps clear it all up!

Rule 9-2-11 penalty 4 (the Intentional for fouling the thrower-inner) states that this is an I whether it occurs after a made basket or a regular throw-in.

Me too. This is an easy one, clearly defined in the case book and rule book. It's an intentional foul, nothing more, nothing less.

Pizanno, how is the ball dead?

Stand Corrected
 

Rocky-

You are correct. I should have checked the case book first.

BBRef: In my scenario, whistling a T for "leaving the court" causes the ball to become dead. I guess this doesn't apply a "leaving the court".


I'll see you after school, Dennis!

[Edited by pizanno on Dec 18th, 2000 at 05:20 PM]

That 2 responces that have helped me today Bob, thanks again.

SH
keep smiling

Pizanno,

I was taught the T for leaving the court should A) never be called unless needed, and B) was put in there to prevent players from running OOB to avoid baseline defense and catch a pass on the other side or defenders avoiding picks/screens. or C) my favorite, going and sitting on the bench during play to cherry pick later on.

Brian-

You're right. I think I got too techinical on this one.

"a little bit of knowledge can be dangerous"

You're right. Too much knowledge is scary.

I actually had a parent yelling for one of these the other day because a kid ran off the floor to hand a knee brace to a coach. It was one of those bands around the bottom of the knee and it came off. The kid ran OOB and handed it to his caoch on the way up the floor. I think it was a good heads-up play, but not the peanut gallery.