"...poor game management...."

[mick]

JV Home (down by 25, 1st half) calls a 30.
Buzzer at 10.
No teams moving.

Final buzzer ---
*Tweet*
2 more seconds ---
Visitors start walking across to me.

2 seconds later ---
*Tweet*
Visitors jog to finish the difference.
Home team still in huddle.

3 seconds later ---
*Tweet*
Bounce ball to in-thrower V1
Start count
V1 panics (at "Two", I am not counting aloud) and passes to V2 (bounced off V2's head, who was looking at the Home team breaking the huddle)

I don't care where the ball bounces.

At half intermission, JV Home chews me for putting the ball into play while his team was still in the huddle, ..."That's poor game management, Mick! Neither team was ready!"


Why come didn't any of you folks warn me about this?
mick

[footlocker]

Mick,

Do you send an official over to the huddle to bring them out after the first horn?

[just another ref]

JV boys game. Team A (visitors) ball out of bounds backcourt endline. Timeout Team A. 45 second horn Team B breaks huddle. Team A no movement. Partner: first horn, let's go Team A. Second horn. No movement from Team A. Tweet, let's go Team A. No movement. Pause..... ball on floor..1,2,3,4,5,...Tweet, B's ball. A is just breaking the huddle. A's coach: (totally mystified) What? It was our ball before the timeout! Me: Yes, and after two horns, a whistle, and a count of five, now it's their ball. (paraphrased) He shakes his head and sits down.
The next week I was at School A doing varsity. There's an older guy that is at all of School A's games, I think he is their former coach, now retired. I was exchanging a brief word with this guy when he said, "Oh, by the way, if I had been evaluating you guys the other night at the JV, you would have gotten a negative mark for the way you handled that timeout situation."

Your opinion is duly noted, sir.

[mick]

Originally posted by footlocker
Mick,

Do you send an official over to the huddle to bring them out after the first horn?

YU.P.
We were both top of the key and both notified our respective huddles.
I was of the opinion that if we followed the mechanics, we wouldn't get into trouble.
mick

[footlocker]

I don't know if I will ever be in similar trouble or not but I haven't thus far. I watch a lot of officials go notify the coach. Typically, they get about 2/3 of the way to the huddle, put a finger up and say something about half of the time.

My partner and I jog all the way to the huddle like we are an uninvited guest at a party, put a finger up and let the coach know, "First horn Coach."

Then I stand there. "Let's go, bring 'em out coach."

Now it may seem like I have nothing else to say or no other reason to be there. Wrong. "White ball coach, on the side." "Let's go." By then, the ususally have it and the players and I come out together. If they miss it, the coach can't complain that I failed to get them ready.

Obviously this is no gaurantee that I still won't end up in your situation. But I thought I'd share how I do it.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by just another ref
"Oh, by the way, if I had been evaluating you guys the other night at the JV, you would have gotten a negative mark for the way you handled that timeout situation."

Seems like there's a reason he's not an evaluator . . . .

[mick]

Originally posted by footlocker
I don't know if I will ever be in similar trouble or not but I haven't thus far. I watch a lot of officials go notify the coach. Typically, they get about 2/3 of the way to the huddle, put a finger up and say something about half of the time.

My partner and I jog all the way to the huddle like we are an uninvited guest at a party, put a finger up and let the coach know, "First horn Coach."

Then I stand there. "Let's go, bring 'em out coach."

Now it may seem like I have nothing else to say or no other reason to be there. Wrong. "White ball coach, on the side." "Let's go." By then, the ususally have it and the players and I come out together. If they miss it, the coach can't complain that I failed to get them ready.

Obviously this is no gaurantee that I still won't end up in your situation. But I thought I'd share how I do it.

Yeah, good call, footlocker.

'Bout a month ago I had that same JV coach.
I did what you do.

What I got was an *evil eye* like, "Why are you bothering me? I'm busy!" Like you, I stood there saying, "It's time coach; it's time."

Maybe my partner got that look last night.
mick

[PaREF]

OK, first of all I only officiate volleyball (but love reading the posts here) and second, I realize every sport has their unwritten rules of etiquette but why should the official be expected to go over to a team's huddle at the end of a time out and take them by the hand and lead them on the court?

Every high school gym I have been in has at least one visible timing device and a horn that can wake the dead. Unless the coach is hearing-impared, s/he should be able to easily recognize when the timeout is ending.

I hope they don't start expecting you guys to fill the water bottles during halftime!

[mick]

Originally posted by PaREF
OK, first of all I only officiate volleyball (but love reading the posts here) and second, I realize every sport has their unwritten rules of etiquette but why should the official be expected to go over to a team's huddle at the end of a time out and take them by the hand and lead them on the court?

Every high school gym I have been in has at least one visible timing device and a horn that can wake the dead. Unless the coach is hearing-impared, s/he should be able to easily recognize when the timeout is ending.

I hope they don't start expecting you guys to fill the water bottles during halftime!

PaREF,
Well some of it is mandated, like letting them know.
Some of it is just preventative, like holding their hand at times. (I'm betting you know about that.)
mick

---

Would you like them filled all the way?

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by footlocker
I don't know if I will ever be in similar trouble or not but I haven't thus far. I watch a lot of officials go notify the coach. Typically, they get about 2/3 of the way to the huddle, put a finger up and say something about half of the time.

My partner and I jog all the way to the huddle like we are an uninvited guest at a party, put a finger up and let the coach know, "First horn Coach."

Then I stand there. "Let's go, bring 'em out coach."

Now it may seem like I have nothing else to say or no other reason to be there. Wrong. "White ball coach, on the side." "Let's go." By then, the ususally have it and the players and I come out together. If they miss it, the coach can't complain that I failed to get them ready.

Obviously this is no gaurantee that I still won't end up in your situation. But I thought I'd share how I do it.

I don't agree with this for two reasons:
1. An official has no business in a coach's huddle. That is their area. Just as you don't want coaches coming out onto the floor or over to your huddle at midcourt after the 2nd quarter ends. After the first horn, get close enough to give the necessary message; that's all.
2. By improperly staying there you think that you are speeding things up, but you are actually delaying the game.
This is the case, since, if I am administering the throw-in and the other team is properly ready to play at the second horn, I want to put the ball in play now, but I can't because, you, my partner, are out of position as you are still standing over by this team's bench.

Now that may seem harsh, but I have never had to put the ball down more than once in any game, and I will only do it early. If there is 2 minutes to play, I'm not going to hose somebody. Putting the ball on the floor once is what speeds up the game, not standing over by the huddle begging the team to come out.

Lastly, here's the correct procedure:
From the NFHS officials manual: 274 pg. 45
"At the warning signal (first horn), the officials will step toward the team huddle and notify the coaches/bench by raising an index finger and saying "first horn." The officials should then move toward their proper positions to resume play. Officials shall see that each team has five players on the court. After the second horn to end the time-out, the administering official shall sound his/her whistle to indicate play is ready to resume. Signal when the clock is to start."

The bold is mine.

[TPS2859]

If I choose to put the ball in play before they break, I will give a very load whistle then place he ball on the floor to start the count.

You also have the option of not putting the ball in play, but walking over and giving the coach a delay of game with a T to fallow if he does this again.

[footlocker]

Well put nevadaref. I also like the citation of the officials’ manual. I would like to point out a couple of things. My partner and I don’t leave each other out to dry; we work as a team. I’m getting one team out and he is getting the other. We don’t walk around the court. We enjoy what we do and we hustle. The delaying the game comment is off. By working this way early in a game, it is not necessary to do the same later in a game.

I never said that we haven’t put the ball down. We have, but not while one team is in the huddle still. It’s usually because players come onto the court in a daze and ignore how the ball is coming back into play.

If this works for you, great. Have you ever heard that you should be fascinated by what interests your boss? Our association’s evaluators have made it a point to go over this during preseason meetings. This is how we are told to take care of business.

But, your point is noted.

[Rich]

Originally posted by TPS2859
If I choose to put the ball in play before they break, I will give a very load whistle then place he ball on the floor to start the count.

You also have the option of not putting the ball in play, but walking over and giving the coach a delay of game with a T to fallow if he does this again.

Where is this specificed in the resumption-of-play procedures?

Anyhow, I won't put the ball down unless abslolutely forced. We WILL get them out of the huddle on the second horn if necessary and we will be aggressive in doing so.

Putting the ball down may get the team out of the huddle quicker the next time, but it absolutely ruins the working relationship we have with the teams. If we start five seconds or even ten seconds after the second horn once or twice, it really doesn't matter to me.

I haven't even seen this done in a few years. Last time was in a JV game and it was followed by a quick technical on the head coach.

--Rich

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser


Anyhow, I won't put the ball down unless abslolutely forced. We WILL get them out of the huddle on the second horn if necessary and we will be aggressive in doing so.

Putting the ball down may get the team out of the huddle quicker the next time, but it absolutely ruins the working relationship we have with the teams. If we start five seconds or even ten seconds after the second horn once or twice, it really doesn't matter to me.

I haven't even seen this done in a few years. Last time was in a JV game and it was followed by a quick technical on the head coach.

--Rich

I agree with this. Someone needs to aggressively DRAG the team out onto the floor. It can be done, and it can be done in a graceful manner. Putting the ball on the floor should be the very, very last resort.

[TPS2859]

I do it without a secound thought if the coach is constantly taking advantage of his time outs. Turning a 30 into 45 or a 60 into a buck and change. My feelings are,why should he benifit when the other team is out ready to play every time. And yes it works for me very well. I choose not to beg a coach to get his team out of the huddle, yet I choose to keep the game moving along