A1 is dribbling down the court and clumbsily attempts to pass the ball. He makes a bad pass and the ball bounces once and he catches it. Travel or not? What if the ball bounced twice? Would it matter if the attempted pass was made with 1 hand instead of 2?
Officiating is a tough business. The more you learn, the more you realize you don't know.

This is not traveling. It's not a double dribble. It's not anything. It's just a fumble.

You cannot travel unless you are <B>holding</B> the ball. The one exception is a player who tosses the ball into the air, runs, and catches it. And, of course, i'm referring to a pass, not a try.

Another myth dispelled. :)

If he/she retrieves the ball AND dribbles again, it's double-dribble...but simply retrieving it is okay as long as it clearly was a FUMBLED pass. Rule of thumb: A player can fumble-dribble-fumble and retrieve but can never dribble-fumble-dribble.

Hence, a LEGITIMATE pass (not fumble) and recover by the same player without the ball touching anyone or anything else would draw a double-dribble call from me.

You need to better describe what you mean by "bad pass". IF it's a pass (mostly as defined in the book), but was bad because it didn't happen to go to a teammate, then it's a violation. If it was a fumble (again as described in the book), then it's nothing.

It's your judgment.

Indy ref is right!

If he/she retrieves the ball AND takes three steps after gaining control, it's a travel. But he didn't say she took three steps and he didn't say she dribbled again. I think the point oif Ralph's question was can she travel by taking steps to retrieve a fumble. The answer is no.

Actually, what I said was, she made a bad pass. For instance, the girl she passed to looked away and moved about the time she passed and no one else was there, so she ran over and picked the ball back up, untouched by anyone. For the sake of this discussion, let's assume the ball bounced 3 times before she retrieved it. In effect, she passed to herself with the exception that the ball hit the floor(3 times). Tricky one, huh?

<b>Actually, what I said was, she made a bad pass. For instance, the girl she passed to looked away and moved about the time she passed and no one else was there, so she ran over and picked the ball back up, untouched by anyone. For the sake of this discussion, let's assume the ball bounced 3 times before she retrieved it. In effect, she passed to herself with the exception that the ball hit the floor(3 times). Tricky one, huh</b>

No, it not tricky at all. It's just that your original post wasn't clear as to what you meant by a bad pass.

Bob is correct. It doesn't matter that how many times the ball hit the floor. If she's already used her dribble, then the proper call would be traveling. If she had not used her dribble or if this was considered a fumble, there wouldn't be a violation.

Also, per Ralph's original multi-part question, if the player used only ONE hand to make the pass, then went several steps to retrieve it, you would generally have nothing (unless the palm was facing upward and the ball came to rest in the hand during the pass attempt). Otherwise, it would only be travelling (double-dribble, actually) if the pass was made with TWO hands, then retrieved.

There are some exceptions, I think.
...If the pass was made with one hand, it may have been initially touched with two, and just passed with one hand.
...If a player palms the ball with his hand on top, or one the side and the ball came to rest before the one-handed pass.
In these cases, I believe the player may not be legal in initiating another dribble.

The number of hands used to throw the pass doesn't have anything to do with it. When she starts the dribble, it doesn't matter if she bats or tosses it to the floor with one hand or two.

4-15-1
A dribble is ball movement caused by a player in control who bats (intentionally strikes the ball with the <b>hand(s))</b> or pushes the ball to the floor once or several times.

If she's already used her dribble, it's traveling or a double dribble according to 4.15.4. It doesn't really clarify if it traveling or double dribble. If she hasn't used her dribble, then it's just the start of a dribble, no matter how many hands she started the dribble with.

Travelling
 

How about this one???
You are trail, following the dribbler up the court who is being closely guarded by a defensive player who is running at the side of the dribbler. The dribbler sees a trap developing just over centre ,gathers up the ball to shoot or pass and steps on the defensive players foot and falls to the ground still holding the ball. The crowd goes ballistic-Whats the call-And do you make it correct every time??-Be honest!!
Pistol

Re: Travelling
 

Peter,
Sounds like there wasn't enough room between the defenders, the dribbler initiated the minor contact,and the dribbler gets called for a travel.
I call travel, and, yes, the crowd wants my head on a stick.
mick

Travelling
 

Good call -it's too bad most of the officials I watch aren't as courageous- too often they take the easy way out and call a foul.
Pistol

Courage, or stupidity
 

Peter,
Last year I had that exact scenario, but as the ball handler split the defenders, he threw a forearm into the chest of one of them, trying to draw a foul, before he fell. I called a PC and that woke up the fans, I'll tell ya! :)
mick

The original post indicated the player is dribbling, then tries to make the pass. That being the case, the number of hands used to throw the pass IS relevant. If he uses one hand to "clumbsily" make the pass, then it may be possible for him to retrieve the ball or even continue the dribble without violating, as long as the ball did not come to rest in his hand. If using two hands, then the dribble has immediately ended, in which case releasing the ball on an ill-fated pass attempt and then retrieving it would be considered a double dribble (not a travel, though the result is the same). It cannot be considered a fumble in this situation, as someone else correctly noted, since the ball was released on purpose.

Exactly...
 

This is why I would call double (illegal) dribble! The player's INTENT was to end the dribble and pass the ball. To pick it back up, i.e. to catch his own pass, to me, would warrant a double dribble call. I would have to see it to determine absolutely what I would call...if I'd call anything.

Possible but not likely. In the case you describe, you might have a bat but 99% of the time the dribble would end.

True, it wouldn't happen very often. But then, most or at least many of the situations we discuss here are relatively infrequent occurences, which are the types of situations we need to be prepared for. The common situations are usually self-evident or so well-learned that we hardly have to think about them to make the right call.

Todd,
This interests me.
Is there any case, in your mind, where a player may fumble a pass and retrieve it legally? Perhaps, only if a defender strikes the ball, it is legal to retrieve?
mick

I suppose you'd have to see it to decide, Mick, but if someone attempted a pass that he just didn't get much on or it didn't go the right direction, I'd be hard pressed to rule that a fumble. I'd probably consider it a screwed up pass, and not allow him to retrieve it. Now, if in my judgment he fumbled the ball accidentally BEFORE he could attempt the actual pass (let's assume a two-handed effort), I could see letting him regain control without penalty, but not dribble again. And yes, if a defender deflects or gets a hand on the muffed pass, then of course the player can try to get it back and do whatever he wants with it.

Thanks Todd,
That makes sense to me.
I was afraid I was out to lunch, but it was just breakfast.:)
mick