Over and Back

[RefSouthAlb]

NCAA rules please.

Throw in in the front court by A1.

Ball thrown in. Bounces off B1 hands then A2 hands (both in the front court) and rolls into the back court where it is picked up by A2. Is this considered over and back ??

My partner who was lead whistled it down eventhough it was in my area and we disputed the call (albeit in our post game).

IMO I though it was not over and back as A did not gain control in the front court after the ball was released on the throw in.

I was sure I was right but couldn't find a good reference in the handbook.


Any help?

Thanks

[Camron Rust]

You were correct.

A backcourt violation required team control which can only be started by a player holding or dribbling the ball inbounds.

[dhodges007]

You are correct because there was no team control. Look up the def of team control.

Good question.

[rockyroad]

Well, you were right, but not because of what those first two responses say...NCAA rules, there IS team control during a throw-in, however there is an exception which allows the ball to be thrown into the back-court...

[RefSouthAlb]

Thanks Rocky Road,

My understanding is that Team Control is there while the person who is throwing the ball has the ball in his hands but ends once it leaves his hands hence the exception as to why the ball can go in the backcourt.

[rockyroad]

Not the way I understand it...team control on the throw-in continues until the throw-in ends...of course at that point, team control is established by whichever team catches the throw-in...so if the offensive team catches their own throw-in, team control is never broken...like I said, there is the exception which allows them to throw it into the back-court...

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by RefSouthAlb
Thanks Rocky Road,

My understanding is that Team Control is there while the person who is throwing the ball has the ball in his hands but ends once it leaves his hands hence the exception as to why the ball can go in the backcourt.

Not correct but sorta close to last years interp, which stated the throw-in ended when the ball is touched on court. If the TI was touched (not controlled) on court then there was a period of time when there was no team control, and that lasted until a player took control of the ball (make sense so far?). This year's interp states the throw-in does not end until it's controlled by a player on the court, eliminating that tme when there was no team control on the TI.

[footlocker]

Ok, switching gears to Fed rules...

If a player is straddling the midcourt line, the ball is thrown in to him. He bobbles the ball into the frontcourt and then grabs it after a single bounce without moving either foot (still straddling). Violation?

[Bart Tyson]

Originally posted by footlocker
Ok, switching gears to Fed rules...

If a player is straddling the midcourt line, the ball is thrown in to him. He bobbles the ball into the frontcourt and then grabs it after a single bounce without moving either foot (still straddling). Violation?

no violation

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by Bart Tyson

no violation

Agreed...that's because he (or any teammate) never had player control.

If he had actually caught the ball, held and/or dribbled it, and then fumbled it into the FC it would be a violation for him (or any teammate) to pick it up while still in the BC.

[footlocker]

Interesting. That is how I would have answered it. I have an NFHS video from 2003. It shows the exact situation that I described and indicates that it is a backcourt violation. The video does not explain why that is. My only gues is that the fumbled ball in the front court creates a ball with front court status. No player may pick up that ball while in the backcourt. However, without team control, I'm not sure about this. Anyone else have any ideas here?

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by footlocker
Interesting. That is how I would have answered it. I have an NFHS video from 2003. It shows the exact situation that I described and indicates that it is a backcourt violation. The video does not explain why that is. My only gues is that the fumbled ball in the front court creates a ball with front court status. No player may pick up that ball while in the backcourt. However, without team control, I'm not sure about this. Anyone else have any ideas here?

Perhaps the video was judging that the player briefly had control before they fumbled it into the FC.

[footlocker]

I will re-watch this portion of the video. I don't believe that is what is being represented. Once I watch it, I will post the wording verbatim.

Meanwhile, if anyone is wise enough to figure this out, I'd appreciate it.

[Bart Tyson]

Meanwhile, if anyone is wise enough to figure this out, I'd appreciate it. [/B]

IF it is as you described, then I, ME, with no help, I have the answer. "The video was wrong". Sooo, do I get a prize?

[footlocker]

Here is the quote from the video. I had to stop and rewind a couple of times to make sure that I got this quote verbatim. It is discussing receiving an inbounds pass while straddling the midcourt line. "However, if the player accepting the ball, fumbles the ball and recovers with one foot still in the backcourt, then that player has violated the backcourt rule." Plus the video that goes with these words clearly shows that the girl representing the player never has player control, therefore no team control. Yet they said this was a violation.

However, there is a key in the words they use. The video says "fumbles." The 2002-2003 simplified and illustrated states that a fumble requires momentary control and a muff does not. If a player muffs a pass no team control, if I fumble a pass then I have control and a loose ball. Unfortunately since the video appears more like a muff than a fumble, I would have ruled differently than the video indicates.