JV Home (down by 25, 1st half) calls a 30.
Buzzer at 10.
No teams moving.

Final buzzer ---
*Tweet*
2 more seconds ---
Visitors start walking across to me.

2 seconds later ---
*Tweet*
Visitors jog to finish the difference.
Home team still in huddle.

3 seconds later ---
*Tweet*
Bounce ball to in-thrower V1
Start count
V1 panics (at "Two", I am not counting aloud) and passes to V2 (bounced off V2's head, who was looking at the Home team breaking the huddle)

I don't care where the ball bounces.

At half intermission, JV Home chews me for putting the ball into play while his team was still in the huddle, ..."That's poor game management, Mick! Neither team was ready!"


Why come didn't any of you folks warn me about this?
mick

Mick,

Do you send an official over to the huddle to bring them out after the first horn?

me, too
 

JV boys game. Team A (visitors) ball out of bounds backcourt endline. Timeout Team A. 45 second horn Team B breaks huddle. Team A no movement. Partner: first horn, let's go Team A. Second horn. No movement from Team A. Tweet, let's go Team A. No movement. Pause..... ball on floor..1,2,3,4,5,...Tweet, B's ball. A is just breaking the huddle. A's coach: (totally mystified) What? It was our ball before the timeout! Me: Yes, and after two horns, a whistle, and a count of five, now it's their ball. (paraphrased) He shakes his head and sits down.
The next week I was at School A doing varsity. There's an older guy that is at all of School A's games, I think he is their former coach, now retired. I was exchanging a brief word with this guy when he said, "Oh, by the way, if I had been evaluating you guys the other night at the JV, you would have gotten a negative mark for the way you handled that timeout situation."

Your opinion is duly noted, sir.

YU.P.
We were both top of the key and both notified our respective huddles.
I was of the opinion that if we followed the mechanics, we wouldn't get into trouble. :eek:
mick

I don't know if I will ever be in similar trouble or not but I haven't thus far. I watch a lot of officials go notify the coach. Typically, they get about 2/3 of the way to the huddle, put a finger up and say something about half of the time.

My partner and I jog all the way to the huddle like we are an uninvited guest at a party, put a finger up and let the coach know, "First horn Coach."

Then I stand there. "Let's go, bring 'em out coach."

Now it may seem like I have nothing else to say or no other reason to be there. Wrong. "White ball coach, on the side." "Let's go." By then, the ususally have it and the players and I come out together. If they miss it, the coach can't complain that I failed to get them ready.

Obviously this is no gaurantee that I still won't end up in your situation. But I thought I'd share how I do it.

Re: me, too
 

Seems like there's a reason he's not an evaluator . . . .

Yeah, good call, footlocker.

'Bout a month ago I had that same JV coach.
I did what you do.

What I got was an *evil eye* like, "Why are you bothering me? I'm busy!" Like you, I stood there saying, "It's time coach; it's time."

Maybe my partner got that look last night.
mick

OK, first of all I only officiate volleyball (but love reading the posts here) and second, I realize every sport has their unwritten rules of etiquette but why should the official be expected to go over to a team's huddle at the end of a time out and take them by the hand and lead them on the court?

Every high school gym I have been in has at least one visible timing device and a horn that can wake the dead. Unless the coach is hearing-impared, s/he should be able to easily recognize when the timeout is ending.

I hope they don't start expecting you guys to fill the water bottles during halftime:D!

PaREF,
Well some of it is mandated, like letting them know.
Some of it is just preventative, like holding their hand at times. (I'm betting you know about that.) :)
mick

<HR> Would you like them filled all the way?

I don't agree with this for two reasons:
1. An official has no business in a coach's huddle. That is their area. Just as you don't want coaches coming out onto the floor or over to your huddle at midcourt after the 2nd quarter ends. After the first horn, get close enough to give the necessary message; that's all.
2. By improperly staying there you think that you are speeding things up, but you are actually delaying the game.
This is the case, since, if I am administering the throw-in and the other team is properly ready to play at the second horn, I want to put the ball in play now, but I can't because, you, my partner, are out of position as you are still standing over by this team's bench.

Now that may seem harsh, but I have never had to put the ball down more than once in any game, and I will only do it early. If there is 2 minutes to play, I'm not going to hose somebody. Putting the ball on the floor once is what speeds up the game, not standing over by the huddle begging the team to come out.

Lastly, here's the correct procedure:
From the NFHS officials manual: 274 pg. 45
"At the warning signal (first horn), the officials will step toward the team huddle and notify the coaches/bench by raising an index finger and saying "first horn." The officials should then move toward their proper positions to resume play. Officials shall see that each team has five players on the court. After the second horn to end the time-out, the administering official shall sound his/her whistle to indicate play is ready to resume. Signal when the clock is to start."

The bold is mine.

If I choose to put the ball in play before they break, I will give a very load whistle then place he ball on the floor to start the count.

You also have the option of not putting the ball in play, but walking over and giving the coach a delay of game with a T to fallow if he does this again.

Well put nevadaref. I also like the citation of the officials’ manual. I would like to point out a couple of things. My partner and I don’t leave each other out to dry; we work as a team. I’m getting one team out and he is getting the other. We don’t walk around the court. We enjoy what we do and we hustle. The delaying the game comment is off. By working this way early in a game, it is not necessary to do the same later in a game.

I never said that we haven’t put the ball down. We have, but not while one team is in the huddle still. It’s usually because players come onto the court in a daze and ignore how the ball is coming back into play.

If this works for you, great. Have you ever heard that you should be fascinated by what interests your boss? Our association’s evaluators have made it a point to go over this during preseason meetings. This is how we are told to take care of business.

But, your point is noted.

Where is this specificed in the resumption-of-play procedures?

Anyhow, I won't put the ball down unless abslolutely forced. We WILL get them out of the huddle on the second horn if necessary and we will be aggressive in doing so.

Putting the ball down may get the team out of the huddle quicker the next time, but it absolutely ruins the working relationship we have with the teams. If we start five seconds or even ten seconds after the second horn once or twice, it really doesn't matter to me.

I haven't even seen this done in a few years. Last time was in a JV game and it was followed by a quick technical on the head coach.

--Rich

I agree with this. Someone needs to aggressively DRAG the team out onto the floor. It can be done, and it can be done in a graceful manner. Putting the ball on the floor should be the very, very last resort.

I do it without a secound thought if the coach is constantly taking advantage of his time outs. Turning a 30 into 45 or a 60 into a buck and change. My feelings are,why should he benifit when the other team is out ready to play every time. And yes it works for me very well. I choose not to beg a coach to get his team out of the huddle, yet I choose to keep the game moving along

You don't have that option if you're following the rulebook. The only time that you can give a "T" out in the "resumption of play" procedure is if you have already called a violation on that team while using that procedure, and they then continue to delay. A "warning" is not part of the procedure.

Well said, although I probably would not put the ball on the floor for the entire fourth quarter of a close game. One thing I do, if a team isn't breaking its huddle soon after the first horn, I'll say loudly, "Be ready to play on the second horn."

Let's see?
 

First horn goes off, we give the warning, the team doesn't break so we give them a warning that the next time they don't break we will put the ball down and the next time we put the ball down. Sounds like it is very fair and we are working with the coach but he is not working with us. If he is mad at me for putting the ball down, so be it!

The only time that you can give a "T" out in the "resumption of play" procedure is if you have already called a violation on that team while using that procedure, and they then continue to delay.


I think thats what I said.

Re: me, too
 

From your post, you handled the timeout situation just fine. As far at the old coach, I would have politely told him that before he gives a negative evaluation, he should now what are the rules and mechanics for a resuming play situation after a timeout.

The problem with old coaches and coaches in general is that their word about the rules carries an amount of credibility with fans, players, and the press, which is completely opposite to their knowledge of the rules.

Far too many times I have had conversations with fans in a no officiating setting that will flat out tell me that a coach always knows the rules better that everybody else because he is a basketball coach. Such logic just boggles the mind.

*first horn*
"Lets got gentleman (or ladies) 1st horn"
*count 5 seconds to myself*
"Ok gentleman lets break the huddle" *clap hands twice
*look at clock - if its at zero or reverted to the game clock*
"Gentleman your time has expired, lets break the huddle now fellas."
*count 2 seconds*
*tweet whistle and indicated to partner its time to play*

Usually odnt have to get past the clap. The last night of camp this past summer the camp host called me a bulldog cuz I wouldnt relent until a huddle breaked. I told one huddle , "Gentleman dont make me come in there to get yall" got a laugh from a player and broken huddle.

Why would you bother them between the first horn and the second horn? That's still part of the timeout and I think the coach is entitled to use that time without an official getting on his case.

Notify the team that the first horn has gone off and step back out of their way.

--Rich

Last resort for sure and putting the ball down is often the catalyst that takes a coach out of his game......I don't think it bothers the players that much. At FROSH and lower, coaches are always trying to stuff 90 seconds of instruction into a 30.....At this level my pre-game conference always includes a statement and a coaches' head nod that teams MUST be ready to play at the second horn. If you are going to put the ball down, do it early and if you haven't done it early, live with the delay the rest of the game.

Ruin relationship?
 

If putting the ball down after patiently trying to work with a coach to get his players out of the huddle after all that has been noted here ruins the relationship that you have with a coach then you did not have a relationship with that coach in the first place. He is flat out taking advantage of a situation to which he is not entitled. That is why we have a first and second horn. As long as you warn a coach that the next time they are not ready you are entitiled to put the ball down no questions asked. Ruin a relationship? What relationship?

I sometimes cover this in the captains meeting before the game saying to the captain the after the first horn teams need to break and be ready to play by second horn. I ask him to go back and let his coach know.

That way everyone is reminded before the game even starts. If it happens in the game once I grab the captain and indicate to him that the ball will be put into play after the second whistle on the next time out. It's his responsibilty get his players out. Make sure your coach is aware.

HAven't had a problem yet happy to say. Never had to put the ball down and start a count.

Re: Ruin relationship?
 

I have never had a coach get to the point where I felt the need to put the ball down, at least not at the varsity level -- which is what I normally work.

Then again, I *am* pretty liberal with a timeout. I wait until both teams are comfortably at their benches before starting the timeout clock, telling the timer during the pregame meeting that it doesn't start until I tell him/her and that I will usually wait until the teams are in their huddles to start. I step in and announce the first horn, usually getting the attention of the assistants. Then, if I'm the official off ball and the team hasn't broken by the second horn, I'll walk in the huddle and get them moving.

Never felt that I was being taken advantage of. I've also never told them to be ready to play on the second horn, either -- I think that's bush league and makes us look like we're in some kind of a big hurry. Games can end in 1:10, including halftime -- what's the rush?

If I felt that a coach had taken advantage of a timeout, I would take the time to talk to the coach about it. If he repeated the behavior, then I guess I would put the ball on the floor. But I'm not going there unless I feel like I'm put in that corner -- and likely the coach and I would've had a brief chat about it first.

Sure, putting the ball down shows the coach who's in charge and tells the coach to "speed things up." But does it make the game better for you, for them, and for the players?

Re: Re: Ruin relationship?
 

These are some great comments. Also, if this is a problem there is nothing wrong with asking the coach, at the appropriate time, "coach, can you get them out a little quicker?" Most coaches will not have a problem with that because the don't mind the communication. It is sort of telling them how you feel without a threat. If a coach has a problem with this communication he/she has other problems too.

Another Spin on this one
 

It is certainly good advice that has been offered here.

Now, let me put it to you all a bit differently.

We are now into conference play. Some teams have been bending this rule all season long and as a result get an extra 5-10 seconds on most of the timeouts during the season. The officials have been leanient in getting the procrastinating coach/team ready for play. By the way, unless there is a first time coach, who never played, and has never been to a game, knows what the rule is and by taking extra time is gaining an advantage by getting that extra bit of coaching time.

We now have the team that procrastinates playing a team that knows what their responsibility is. The coach/team is ready for play to begin but are kept waiting by this offending team. The coach starts grumbling, rightfully so, that they are ready to play, why are we still waiting?

If some official places the ball on the floor for this team just one time, they will be less likely to delay in the future. I guarantee you that the players will start moving. The officials that follow you will have one less problem to worry about and will thank you.

With all that said, I don't suggest putting the ball down in the closing minutes of a close game if it hasn't already been done.

Re: Another Spin on this one
 

Why not? If the first time a team delays is with 30 seconds left in a tie game, those who advocate putting the ball down should do it here, too.

Sorry if I sound self-centered, but I am unconcerned with future officials and crews. I expect those officials to have some common sense, too, I guess. If one team is ready for play and the other one isn't, there are other alternatives to putting the ball on the floor and counting -- communication being the number one alternative.

A great majority of varsity coaches know the rules and know their jobs. They will respect an official that will come over and talk and request that the team come out a little quicker. If the other coach complains, I would simply explain that he would receive the same courtesy and that would be the end of it in most cases.

Putting the ball down on the floor on the second horn without making an effort shows (to me, and I recognize that some disagree) that you know the rules very well, but aren't interested in preventing situations. And are more interested in showing people who are in charge than in working the game for the teams. And just about every time I've seen an official put the ball on the floor, the rapport between the officials and the coach of the team late in coming out goes south in a hurry.

Here's a serious question for those of you willing to put it on the floor: If the team delaying in coming out was the DEFENSIVE team, would you be as quick to hand it to A for an easy, uncontested basket? Why or why not?

Never failed to have this work.
 

Standing at the appropriate location on the court...

First horn goes off. I raise, and hold, one finger - I'm not yelling anything because no one is listening.

I wait 5-10 seconds and begin my walk towards the huddle. As the second horn sounds, or possibly a couple of second before, I clap my hands and from 5- 10 feet away, say loudly towards the huddle (I never stick my head into the coach's huddle) "White ball coming in on the sideline." or "Red ball coming this way." etc.

Rarely do I have to do any more coaxing than that. I will allow a short delay of maybe 5 seconds and even with that I will be telling the players as they break "Hurry up white; it is your ball." or allow the team that is ready, to pass it in as the other team is scrambling to get get positions.

I do everything I reasonably can to get them out and I still am willing to penalize the sluggards (defense) if they have delayed and then wander out of the huddle lost and confused. "Here we go!" and give the offense the ball to get the game going.

Oooh well don't have to worry about that until next season.

I agree with Dan_ref and Rich Fronheiser. The most I will do is put the ball down at a point when I KNOW it will not have an effect on the game. And it still gets the message accross. i.e. Team A, walking to the throwin spot, 15' away, no pressure from Team B, I put the ball down and have a slow count. I have never had a violation in this situation.

Rich
 

I merely put it out there as a situation. I prefer to use preventative officiating. I have my own protocol that I like to follow, but we all know that there are officials out there that would handle it "by the book." We also know that certain coaches have their "pet" peaves.

I'm checking in kinda late on this thread, and it intrigues me that no one is discussing the initial situation which is that the team who was to put the ball into play was ready to go, and it was another several seconds before mick put the ball into play. Why should a team that is ready to go be penalized because the other team is breaking the rule? Give them the ball, and let em get the easy score. That's their reward for doing what they ought to.

Do this in a varsity game and within 24 hours you'll be talking to your assignor and the state office about why you had to run a coach. And everyone will wonder why you allowed a team to score an uncontested basket. And it will come back on you.

Maybe not everywhere, but that's my instinct.

Yeah, what Rich said. That is kind or bush league for a varsity game. There is a lot you could do before this.

Julie, I agree with you.

I reread Mick's post, and it appeared that he did everything correctly. I do not see a problem putting the ball into play. Team V in Mick's post complied with the rules of the game. Team H was not complying with the rules. The rules are specific in how to handle a resuming play situation. If Team H wants to ignore the rules then it has no complaint if it gives up an uncontested field goal.

Regarding this happening in a varsity game, varsity coaches are not different that coaches at the lower level. Varsity coaches will take every millimeter that officials will give them. Right now I asssume that there readers that are asking the question: Have you done this to a team in a varsity game? Yes. Why? Because it was the correct thing to do. The varsity coach complained, but he had his team ready to go according to the rules every timeout the rest of the game.

Personally, I do not like the resuming play rule. but that is the topic of another thread.

Do this in a varsity game and within 24 hours you'll be talking to your assignor and the state office about why you had to run a coach. And everyone will wonder why you allowed a team to score an uncontested basket. And it will come back on you.

Maybe not everywhere, but that's my instinct.

[/B][/QUOTE]I think that you got one thing right. The "not everywhere" part at the last.

Rich, I may agree with your point of view. Maybe not all of it, but most of it. What I don't agree with is you trying to justify <b>your</b> opinion over someone else's opinion by making blanket statements alluding that assignors, state offices, and "everyone" in the world automatically agrees with your opinion. I mean "everyone will wonder"? That just ain't so. Other responses in this thread have already proved that wrong. Usually you're not the type of poster that tries to back their own opinion by using the old "don't call that or you'll never make it to a higher level" type of response, but I think that you might be just a touch guilty of that in this case. I respect your opinion. I think that you should respect Juulie's opinion also, even if you don't agree with it.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Mar 7th, 2004 at 02:37 AM]

I think that you got one thing right. The "not everywhere" part at the last.

Rich, I may agree with your point of view. Maybe not all of it, but most of it. What I don't agree with is you trying to justify <b>your</b> opinion over someone else's opinion by making blanket statements alluding that assignors, state offices, and "everyone" in the world automatically agrees with your opinion. I mean "everyone will wonder"? That just ain't so. Other responses in this thread have already proved that wrong. Usually you're not the type of poster that tries to back their own opinion by using the old "don't call that or you'll never make it to a higher level" type of response, but I think that you might be just a touch guilty of that in this case. I respect your opinion. I think that you should respect Juulie's opinion also, even if you don't agree with it.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Mar 7th, 2004 at 02:37 AM] [/B][/QUOTE]


That's why I qualified my remarks with "maybe not everywhere" and said that is was MY instinct.

I'm certainly not trying to be heavy handed. I'm just hypothetically putting myself into the position of the assignor or the state office and it's doubtful that, even as a working official, I would back an official on making that decision, even though it is well supported by the rules.

I would ask -- exactly what did you do to prevent the situation from occurring?

Going back to continue making a pot of gumbo with these heavy hands :)

--Rich

I would ask -- exactly what did you do to prevent the situation from occurring?

[/B][/QUOTE]Know what, Rich? I don't know whether we really can prevent these situations from coming up. Some coaches just get so involved that they don't just don't know when they're supposed to get their kids back out there. I certainly agree that you don't want to be heavy-handed out there, and call this one right by the book. But, I don't think that you can really make a hard and fast rule that you're never going to call it either. Jmo, but I think that you have to almost look at every case before you make up your mind how to handle it. If I think that someone's getting an advantage out of taking some extra time that they're not entitled to, then, yes, I'd probably do something about it. It does bother me to see 5 players from one team out on the floor, all set to go, and the other coach keeping them waiting. Might sound wishy/washy, but I just think that there's too many variables(score,time left,warnings,etc) involved to say that I'd always handle these types of situations one particular way or another.

Know what, Rich? I don't know whether we really can prevent these situations from coming up. Some coaches just get so involved that they don't just don't know when they're supposed to get their kids back out there. I certainly agree that you don't want to be heavy-handed out there, and call this one right by the book. But, I don't think that you can really make a hard and fast rule that you're never going to call it either. Jmo, but I think that you have to almost look at every case before you make up your mind how to handle it. If I think that someone's getting an advantage out of taking some extra time that they're not entitled to, then, yes, I'd probably do something about it. It does bother me to see 5 players from one team out on the floor, all set to go, and the other coach keeping them waiting. Might sound wishy/washy, but I just think that there's too many variables(score,time left,warnings,etc) involved to say that I'd always handle these types of situations one particular way or another. [/B][/QUOTE]

Agreed.

I also remember a part of this thread where someone mentioned a technical and we talked about how we had to have a violation first (via the resumption-of-play procedure).

I immediately thought -- well, that's not true in ALL cases....I mean, if I walked over and tried to get a team out of the huddle and the coach swore at me, we'd have a technical, but not for delaying the game at that point.

I simply haven't run into any of those issues since moving out of the subvarsity level. Teams come out --- not always at the same time, but close enough. The only problem I had at the varsity level was a team who wanted to use its last time out (full time out) for subs and then demanded that I end the timeout since the calling team was ready. Umm, not in NFHS ball, and I almost had to whack the coach over it.

I respect Juulie's opinions and I'm not saying she couldn't do exactly what she recommended where she lives -- I'm just saying that anyone reading her post should recognize that in some places it may lead to some unpleasantries for the officials.

--Rich

Mama always told me............
 

"you can be right and dead at the same time. "

Now when she used to say this, she was talking about crossing the street or dealing with the cops or getting in a fight. She was not talking about officiating of course. But the statement is to illustrate that you can do everything the rules say, but you might suffer the consequences of the powers that be. And if you do things to the letter, without using common sense (might vary from area), not sure I know if it is worth it to use this procedure.

I am not saying Juulie is wrong or right, just saying you better be sure what the acceptable practices are in your area. Because I know that in some conferences no one would bat an eye if I did this, and some would be perturbed if I did this. So you have to know where you are at, when you do certain things.

Peace

There is no regionally accepted way to handle this situation, the only correct way is to handle it as described in the Rules and Casebook Plays.

Either the official handles the play correctly or he does not. There is no regionally accepted way to handle the situation only the correct way. I do not wish to sound like a hard tuchus, but if an official is afraid of being taken to the woodshed for doing what is correct, then maybe that official should not be officiating.

I personally rather defend myself for doing the correct thing, rathier that trying to defend myself for doing the incorrect thing.

MTD, Sr.

This is completely and absolutely wrong. Period.

Regional differences exist in just about every facet of the high school game. Take this from a guy who has officiated and lived in six states since 1994.

Not learning and refusing to adhere to regional differences can slow down or completely derail an officiating career.

--Rich

Rich:

I have been registered as a basketball official with the OhioHSAA for 32 years, during that time I officiated basketball four years as a registered FloridaHSAA official official, two years with the Southern California Bkb. Off. Assn. (to officiate CIF games in Los Angeles one had to be a member of the SCBOA), and twenty years as a MichiganHSAA offical. Since 1993, I have officiated over thirty AAU and YBOA national tournaments with H.S. officials from California, Connecticut, Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Louisanna, Massachusetts, New York, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Texas, and Virginia, as well one official from Poland and one official from Brazil.

I will grant you that there are groups of officials that do not want the handle certain situations per the rules because there are certain areas of the country where coaches exert undue influence upon officials but that is no excuse for doing the correct thing.

I have found that the officials handle the difficult situations the correct way rather that following the herd will always rise to the top because there are always people knowledgeable in the correct application of the rules and mechanics.

And while there were always officials in the groups to which I belonged that did not want to make waves with coaches the vast majority of officials with whom I have officiatecd H.S. basketball were interested in doing it correctly. Especially at the national level of AAU and YBOA tournaments, the officials that officiate in these tournaments are there because they do things the correct way rather than following the herd.

I have probably stepped on some toes with this post but so be it. I hope that no matter what everybody has had a good season.

MTD, Sr.

So Mark...what evil, vile and misguided sins against the gods of basketball have I committed when I wait a few seconds for my partner to drag a team out of their huddle after the second horn of a timeout? There must be some concrete charges against me, since we're now discussing the need for me to to defend myself.

Do enlighten us.

I will grant you that there are groups of officials that do not want the handle certain situations per the rules because there are certain areas of the country where coaches exert undue influence upon officials but that is no excuse for doing the correct thing.

I have found that the officials handle the difficult situations the correct way rather that following the herd will always rise to the top because there are always people knowledgeable in the correct application of the rules and mechanics.

[/B][/QUOTE]Mark, I think that you completely missed the point that was being made. It's not a matter of handling a certain type of play strictly according to the rule book; it's a matter of officials following the lead of the rules interpreters/evaluators/assignors in their particular area. If the interpretors tell their guys to use a certain procedure, then their guys <b>will</b> use that procedure, if they want to keep on working. It's no different than you telling your guys in your Association to do things a certain way. You expect them to listen to you. Similarly, rules interpretors in other areas expect their officials to listen to them- not you.

That is not true Mark.
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Quote:

I will grant you that there are groups of officials that do not want the handle certain situations per the rules because there are certain areas of the country where coaches exert undue influence upon officials but that is no excuse for doing the correct thing.

Mark,

Did it ever occur to you, that the reason officials do not adhere to the letter of the rules, is because officials feel it is better to handle the situation that way? That is a load of crap if you think coaches are the ones that make these "rules" or "differences." For one, at least in my area we have many officials with college experience that teach the HS officials. So sometimes the philosophies slip thru and are taught at the High School level. I am not talking about undermining what the NF wants, but using more of a game managemant style rather than using the letter. That has nothing to do with the coaches, that has to do with the officials. And I can tell you that I know of assignors that would make a huge issue if you used this procedure, without making every attempt to prevent having to use it. And it will not be the coach that gets on you, it will be the assignor that will. And when many got on me about how I handled timeouts and informing coaches when they are out, the philosophy that I use comes from a former Big Ten Basketball Official, who happens to be our Head Clinician in our state. And I had officials all over this board telling me that I did not understand the rules or I did not know what I was talking about. But 2-11-6 it not going to get any official in major trouble if they are not doing it as the rulebook states. At least not in my state. But it might in your area or in other states where people claimed this was so important to officiating.

I use that as an example because that was one of the biggest discussions we have had here, but if I go to someone else's state, I might have to change what I do. Because the philsophy here is that coaches should know what their timeout situation is. And in my state the philosophy does vary on how to handle the Resume Play Procedure. And if you use it in the 4th quarter with the game on the line, you might be watching more than you are officiating. Just a fact. You do not have to agree.

Peace

I think that many of you are missing the point. There is only one correct way to do things per the rules and casebook plays. There are interpretations and casebook plays that I do not think are correct, but has a rules interpreter, it is my responsibility to give the correct interpretation and to make sure that officials and coaches who come to me get the correct intepretation and not some personal opinion. I have a real problem with intepreters and assignors who think that their interpretation is the one that should be used and not the correct interpretation.

The rules book and officials manual gives us a protocol to follow for resuming play situations. If it is followed, very rarely will you get to a point where you have to place the ball on the floor because the team who is to make the throw-in is still in its huddle.

More importantly, why should one team be allowed to continually flaunt the rules, while the other team follows the rules. Every time you let a team determine when it wants to break its huddle, that team will take longer and longer.

But lets look at the resuming play protocol.

Lets have Team A making a throw-in after the time-out.

1) The warning horn sounds. The officials step toward the team's huddles with one finger (not the middle one because the coach is a jerk) and announce first horn. While not required, it does not hurt to announce that the Captain should break his/her huddle.

1.1) Team A breaks its huddle at the warning horn and gets into position to make its throw-in.

2) The officials should take their appropriate positions on the court for the throw-in.

3) The horn signaling the end of the time-out sounds. Team A has broken its huddle at the warning horn and is in position to make its throw-in.

3.1) Team B is still in its huddle.

What should the officials do? Yes, it is very prudent that the non-adminsitering official should make one attempt to have Team B break its huddle. But only one attempt. Captain B and Coach B knows he/she should have had his/her team should have broken its huddle by now. If Team B does not break its huddle, then put the ball in play.

If Team B is still in its huddle after the time-out ending signal and refuses to break its huddle when told by the non-administering official it does no good for that official to stand there like a fool and keep telling Team B to break its huddle. If the officials stand there and keep telling Team B to break its huddle and does not put the ball into play until Team B does finally break its huddle, Team B will wait in its huddle every time-out until it is ready to play. This is a situation that no one wants, and it makes the officials look bad. If Team B gives up an uncontested layup because its Captain and/or Coach tries to circumvent the rules, I can guarantee you that Team B will be ready to play at the appropriate time for the next time-out.

There really is nothing difficult about following the protocol, what is difficult to understand is why would officals, interpreters, and assingors require their officals to be made fools by coaces like the one for Team B above.

My thoughts....
 

Guys and Gals - I really feel it comes down to this, Do you want to be right or do you want to work??? I have never had to put a ball on the ground after a timeout, you and/or your partner have to make it clear to teams to break out of their huddle on time. If they don't, you make it a point to make sure the coach understands that next time its an issue you'll have a delay of game warning(I've never had this either). I just think it looks ridiculous when people set the ball down unnecessarily; what's the major hurry? Where do you have to go? I know you're all going to come back with extreme stories, but I know for a fact that many officials drop the ball just to prove a supposed point. In my mind, we're there to work with the teams, not against them. I understand there may be some "Bush League," JV teams/coaches that won't listen; but rise above that. To me, slamming the ball down is like spanking a misbehaving child - it probably didn't have to come to that if you/they had communicatted better. I can't imagine a team not breaking a huddle if we do our job of handling the communication. Now I know you're all going to be mad at me, and I'm terrible for taking the coaches/player's side but I'll say it again: Putting the ball down does not help a game in any way!!!!

Peace to all, Good Luck at State - Can't Wait

Re: My thoughts....
 

You don't have kids, do you?

Re: My thoughts....
 

I can not agree with this.

Some teams will take what ever time you allow them to take and will not come out until they are done. There is no such thing as a "delay of game" warning for this. After giving them sufficient time to coe out...put the ball down. I'm pretty liberal with the time I do allow them but I'll be an *** if I have to. They get a specified number of timeouts of a specified length. If they need more time, take another one. If they don't need another one, be done.

I notify them on the first horn. I then call them out again at the final horn. If they're not breaking, I wait a few seconds more, blow the whistle, give them 3-4 more to see if they're breaking. If not, one really solid whistle and the ball goes down.

I also don't start the timeout until both teams are fully at thier bench. If they want extra time, hustle to the bench before the other team gets there.

If they've taken more then 10-15 seconds after the final horn sounds, the ball should be put in play.

I guarantee it will only happen once per game.

Re: Re: My thoughts....
 

AMEN to that!!

Thanks, I think. Folks, I'm not saying that it ought to be 3 seconds after the horn. But if a coach is being just plain stubborn, or arrogant ("No way we're going to start until I'M ready!"), I'm quite willing to give the other team an uncontested lay-up. And I'm quite willing to T the stubborn coach or toss him if necessary, if he complains too much. I'd have done the same for his team if the situations were opposite. Remember, I DON"T CARE WHO WINS!

Does the punishment, fit the crime? There are a lot of battles if you really want to pick-um.

Re: Re: My thoughts....
 

Now that's funny! True,too.

Someone delete this thread. :D