I just wanted to get a feel about how long it takes for people to move up to thier first Varsity Game.

I have heard that it sometimes takes about 4-5 years before you may get a Varsity assignment, sometimes even longer. I consider myself lucky this year, being only my 2nd year, to get a JV girls game. I know that there are occasionaly politics at work within associations and different states, so I was wondering if that could have anything to do with it as well. As for a little background, I am currently in an association in Indiana.

Thanks for the input ahead of time! Don't get the idea that I am starting this thread because of being impatient, I just want to get a gauge about where I should be at this stage in my officiating carrer, and where I should be headed. Once again Thanks!

I think it depends on your location and how many people you have in your assoc. I personally got my 1st varsity game in my second year and had a full varsity schedule my 3rd year. I know that I was and exception (I am not being cocky). But from what I have seen lately it takes probably 3-5 years.

That depends. Have you learned to kiss anything? ;)

Officiating in my area is based on talent, who you work for, what camps you go to and who likes you.

Four to five years sounds rather typical to move to the varsity level. Some move quicker, some move slower. Some do not move at all.

Politics are always apart of officiating and anything else in life. But I think it is overrated and well overblown. The officials that advance the quickest, are the ones that attend camps, go to associations meetings more than once a year, watch more experienced officials and then are willing to talk to them during the halftime and after the game from time to time. And yes, go to officiating socials and banquets also help. Officiating is a contact business. If you only work at one school and one conference, it is really hard to just move you up when no one realizes you exsist. I am in sales, if I tell no one about my business, I am not going to make that much money. No different in officiating.

Sorry, I am off my soapbox for now. :D

Peace

What everyone has said it true. If you apply this you will move. If you want to stay and be the best of the best remember to make your primary concern your officiating. If you are good you will move and stay. It is easy to get there, it is harder to stay.

This isn't always true, there are sometimes obstacles that you can't overcome, for example age, i'm 17, i've been to a fair share of camps, recieved a 98 on my fed exam, was at almost every meeting, but i still haven't been on the floor for a high school game. Because the majority of the games start at 3:00, my next step is to set up a meeting with my guidence counsellor to see if i can arrange my scheduel so that my last class ends at 1:00, i figure that if i'm one of the few who are available, i should get a few games.

How well you officiate and LUCK!!
 

All things said so far are true. For me, this was my first year in an association and 2nd officiating. My goal was to hopefully land a girls JV game this year. Well, I got several GJV games and LUCKED out and worked a GV game. All partners would compliment me and say I didn't look like a 2nd year Ref. I really work hard at officiating and it paid off. I was very pleased with my schedule. BTW, I turned down quite a few games too.

I'm in San Antonio, Tx (TASO).

I plan to attend a couple of camps and looking forward to next year. (Next year I'll probably get all 7th grade girls B teams)

Well where I am located you must be 18 to officiate HS games(in Football/Lacrosse too), also I think you have to have graduated. These are good rules and they make sense IMO, I officiated in HS so I know what you're going through. But in all honesty you shouldn't beable to ref HS until you're an adult and especially not until you're out of HS. You probaly are an excellent offical, just be patient.

I am amazed at the number of officials that "hope" to get a GJV game. In my association (northern VA), we have what we call sub-varsity (JV) officials, swing officials (varsity qualified), and varsity officials. It usually takes 3-5 years to move to "varsity qualified". We run an applicant class at least once a year and these officials usually only work rec ball their first year. The second year, they are working FG and JVG games -- with an experienced partner. They may also do FB and JVB, but not very often.

In order to move up the food chain, JV officials are rated (self initiated) and the better ones are "invited" to a summer league - varsity boys, 3-whistle - where they are paired with at least one varsity official and they work a minimum of 4 games. The rating committee decides which officials are moved to the "swing list". This means you are varsity qualified and you will probably receive a mixed schedule, anything from FG, FB, JV to VG, for the year. It is 95% assured that you won't receive a BV game your first year on swing. Your schedule is also based on your availability to work. I am able to leave work anytime so I usually have either a 4:00 freshman game at one school and a 7:30 varsity game at another school, or a freshman/JV D/H at the same school. We also do the clock at several schools so you may be at one school for all 3 games.

Like any association, we have the good old boy system, but it is not nearly as bad as some of you seem to have. We also have our share of officials that are not as good as they think they are. There will always be politics in any association but I think we have a pretty good system for advancing officials to the varsity level.

I can't speak for Indiana, but around here, your game speaks the loudest. And to have good game you need to attend camps. The more camps, the faster you improve. Also, going to camps will introduce you to mentors and officials who can help. 3-5 yrs if you work hard.

dblref, I have heard some of the same things you have said and some other things. My question to you would be, at this point in your career are you looking out for those not rated as high as you? If you see someone with the game to move are you speaking on their behalf?

Ref18, Bart gave some valuable information about camps. To piggy back on that I will say find a mentor. It would be more beneficial to you to find an old school mentor. By this I mean someone who will not treat you with kid gloves. The key is to find someone that you know will tell you the right thing and cares about you. A officiating friend will do this for you. Some officials will like to yell at you just to yell. I have two great mentors and they became two of my better friends because what they said they said out of like then as time went on they said it out of love. There are a lot of new officials with thin skin and this isn't a good business for that.
Use this time before you turn 18 to study this game. Go to games (the whole game) and see if the Varsity guys will let you in on their pre and post game. See what they wear, how they look, how they carry themselves, their mechanics, etc. You will need to do this anyway and since you can't work it will get you ahead of the power curve. Read the rules and read them with understanding. Stand on the rules and develop your judgement/game management. Do not let your crew blow a rule on the floor. If a vet doesn't agree then make sure you let it be known that you don't agree and move on. You will benefit from this if you are right or wrong. Keep in mind, I'm not talking about judgement. I'm talking about the application of the rules. I could go on and on. You are fortunate to start at a young age. Take full advantage of it.

And give me some cash when you make it into the NBA!

BigGref...my first question is where are you in an association at in Indiana? I have worked out of the Western Association for the past 4 years. Indiana is unlike any other state I have been around (2 in Virginia and 3 in Georgia). In Indiana, AD's get officials for all of thier games. The local association has little if nothing to do with getting you games. Our Scheduling Chairman is affectionately know as the "email boy." All he really does is forward information about open games to the membership.

I would tell you to set your sites on working up to JV in Indiana. AD's usually only schedule these games one year in advance. Meaning that they are working on next year now. Varsity games are set 2 or 3 years in advance. My football crew already has 2 dates for 2008. That is just the way it is done here.

Good luck with your career. If I can be of any assistance, please feel free to contact me.

In Portland, first varisty games average probably 6-7 years. A few do it quicker, some later, some never. When I started, I was told that the average for getting your first Boys 4A (biggest schools) would take an average of 10 years...again, some sooner, some later, many never.

One thing many people fail to realize is that when all else is equal, the guy who's been getting varisty games for 10 years will keep getting most of them. To pass someone by and get games they would be getting, you've got to be not just as good but clearly better.

Few people can legitimately complain about how it works. The system my be slower than some would like, but it's fair. There's only so many top games to go around. Once you are getting varisty games, you can be confident that your wait will be worth it and that your not going to be pushed out unless you really don't cut it.

Ref18, I'm a football official, never worked BB and probably never will, but I can empathize with you.

I started officiating football when I was 17. I was still in school and did peewee. I did middle school and 9th grade when I graduated high school. I officiated for 5 years until my "real" job caused me to have to give it up. Then at age 31 I got the chance to get back into it. Next fall will be my third year of the "second" chapter of my officiating career.

Time is on your side. I KNOW that you want a varsity schedule NOW. I was there. It took me 107 football games and 4 and a half seasons until I got my first varsity. You'll never forget it! But remember TIME is on your side. Tomegun gave some great advice for BB, and I can't add any more to that. I hope you get as much out of officiating as I have, and several people on this board have. GOOD LUCK! :-)

I do about 90-100 in one season! lol :)

HA! I was in college at the time and the whole "GPA" thing kept a hall of fame officiating career in check! ;-)

Back to the meat of my message. For those of you who are younger than 30, time is on your side in your officiating career. Work hard, and don't let impatience spoil a fun ride. It almost spoiled mine the first time around!

Depends on the state and area
 

The situation differs from state to state but on average, it looks like the avg. time is 3-5 years. In Western Kansas, that time is a little lower. I know guys who worked on our Intramural staff last spring and registered this year and have already worked a handful of varsity games. This is due to the lack of officials in this area. The state moved to 3 man mechanics a few years ago at every class (1A-6A) and that has enabled younger or new officials to advance quicker.

I have been officiatin basketball for four years. I have had a full varsity schedule (27 dates)for three of those years. I was lucky enough to work post season last year and this year, I was nominated by the coaches to work the first two nights of the state tournament. I am looking forward to it!

I speak from experience when i say that alot of getting the assignments has to do with who you know (who can get you games), who your partners are because you are only as good as your partners and your work habits. Do you call a good game, Do you hustle, Do you look professional, etc...

I have to agree woth everything that has been said. Camps are very important.

tmoegun mentioned mentors and I feel that this is almost as important as camps. I am fortunate enough to have a mentor locally who helps out through my HS season and a have another mentor that lives in another state but he works 5 D1 confrences. He makes sure that he works at the camps that I go to so he can work with me and we talk almost every week during the season. Both of these guys have been so important to my delevopment as an official.

I was told at my first HS camp I went to after my first HS season to get a mentor and when your ready be a mentor.

i've already got 300-400 games under my belt. (or waistband of my beltless slacks ;)) Me and my dad started at the same time, and he got a full scheduel of highschool games. (but of course he isn't as good as me ;)) Now with the tournament ball, we work together most of the time, so i can't really try to find another partner, i think i'm just going to have to wait till i'm done high school. I'm going to a few more camps this summer, hopefully i'll get my first high school game in the 04-05 season.

Camp alternative
 

One of the administrators in this area (that understands the need to develop officials before putting them into the fire) hosts a JV basketball tournament at the beginning of every season. You send an application (if you are a younger official) and he sets you up with a veteran official. You work one game (and get paid $25 as well) and they video tape you during the game. Once your game is over, you and the veteran official go into a room where there is a projector and vcr. You get to watch yourself on film and with the help of the veteran official receive some good feedback as well as constructive help for mechanics and floor positioning. Is there anyone else around that has heard of anything like this?

Great Replies
 

Hey I would just like to say thanks a lot for all of the great replies. My original message was sent before I got passed up on an Intramural Championship Game. I was pretty pissed off all day today, trying to find anyone but myself to blame. Couldn't find too many takers so I tried to break down why I was passed up; 1 reason I strongly believe that I was passed up was because of a recent game that I did that turned into a T fest. I let player's language get to me, even though they were throwin' around the F word like it was nothing, and the fact that 1/2 the team was noticeably intoxicated and smelled of alcohol. I was put in a tight situation and I guess I didn't do as well as I would hoped.

So after reading these replies I have learned a lot of things; most importantly, the one thing I said in my original post (which was the fact that I was not being impatient), was turned around at me. Being only a couple of years older than ref18 I now know that I must be patient and just go with the flow; it will lead me to a beautiful river one day, and hopefully then, the Ocean! Thanks again for all of your posts and good luck if you still have games to do!

And then you can look forward to going upriver to spawn.

I know I do!

Spawning is Cool
 

I'll try to carry the metaphor a little further...

My patience spawns others into "going with the flow!"

I'm much happier now anyways; I just tripled my money in a poker game ($5 buy-in, nothing big). Just goes to show that there is yin and yang to every human experience, just "go with the flow!"

tomegun:

I do in fact speak up for some of the "junior" officials. I think it is very important to do so. Because I can leave work at basically any time I need to (good boss), I work a lot of freshman games and I am teamed with a "newbie". We don't have regular partners at any level. Sometimes it is a lot of fun working with them, and sometimes it seems like a lost cause depending on whether they really want honest feedback or not. Our evaluations are self-initiated at the non-varsity level. We have a standard form to use and the official writes a short paragraph about what they think they did well and what they think they need to improve. The form is emailed to the varsity official for their comments. All varsity officials are strongly encourage to watch as much of the JV game as possible, so they can provide feedback. About the only time you will get feedback in a freshman game is if you have a varsity official as a partner. I was lucky enough to have a good mentor, so I try to give back.