Ok referee gurus. I have been searching the net for this one, and can't find a rock solid answer, so I'm gonna put it up to the experts. The search function doesn't seem to work, so I'm posting this one as its own topic. Any help will do.


I had a discussion with a ref at our game tonight on whether or not there is a traveling violation on inbounds passes if the inbounds pass is NOT after a made basket. I was under the impression that the inbounder had to stay in a designated spot, and that the "pivot" rules applied once he has the ball, ie, if he establishes a pivot foot, and then lifts it, it is a travel. Is this true? If not, then how does a referee determine when a player has left the designated spot for the inbounds pass, and is it considered a traveling violation? A timely response would be appreciated, because I've got 20 bucks on it - I think its a travel.

Thanks in advance for your help,
-Doug

Get your Andrew Jackson ready. You lose. No such thing as traveling while out of bounds. There is a three foot wide designated spot for the thrower. He can go backwards as far as the gym will allow. pitter-patter all he wants if he is in the box and releases the ball before the 5 second count. If he leaves this designated spot, it is simply a throw in violation. Not traveling.

So then why does the ref signal with his arms rolling if the player moves from the designated area? (ie, when he runs the baseline when he is not allowed to) Also, where in the rules does it state what this designated area is? I didn't find it in the NCAA 2004 or the NBA.com rulebook?

Also, does that mean I could jump up in the air, fake a pass, and land in the same "designated area", and that wouldn't be a violation?

There is a problem with the foundation of what you are saying. I have to account for some ref that you may have seen roll his arms for this violation. This is not the correct mechanic. You need to check the National Federation Rule Book. It explains the designated area and the rules.

I don't have the books with me so I can't cite the rule. You'll have to trust me. If you don't though, do you want to put $20 on it?

Yeah, I got to say that you lost that one!

I can't believe that you guys are up this late on an officiating forum :D

Anybody have a link to an online version of said rulebook? Since I'm bitter about losing my money, I'd like to see it for myself. Is this true for all levels of play?

Sorry I'm away from my books right now, you can leave a message at the tone...

The closest thing you are going to find to a rulebook online is this forum and possibly the NFHS website, which makes the rules for the most part. Here is the link to NHFS basketball rules info
http://www.nfhs.org/scriptcontent/va...No&head=BT.cfm
A tad lengthy I would agree! Good luck hunting!

P.S. Go to bed!

From the NFHS rule book - rule 4-41-6NOTE- <i>"Pivot-foot restrictions and the travelling rule are not in effect on the throw-in'</i>.

The NCAA rule is the same. Click on the link below, and then click on the on-line NCAA rule book- "Mens and Womens Basketball Rules and Interpretations". Then look it up in rule 4 also. If an official used the travelling signal for the violation of moving outside the 3-foot wide throw-in area, then the official was technically wrong.

http://www.ncaa.org/library/rules.html

Pay up, Doug.

Here's a prediction -- unless he can "see it himself" he won't pay up :) . The NFHS doesn't put their books online since it is a significant revenue source for them, but all the citations are there.

What is the proper mechanic?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mick

Quote:

Originally posted by ColeTops25 Quote: If an official used the travelling signal for the violation of moving outside the 3-foot wide throw-in area, then the official was technically wrong. What is the proper mechanic?

Dunno about propriety.
I will blow the whistle, "two" point to the floor and "four" point the other way.
(Of course, first I'd have to see what the score is. :))
mick

Correct Mechanic
 

Blow whistle, Raise open hand (indicates violation)

Point to spot of the "designated" throw-in.

Point in direction of the non-violating teams' basket, as they are now the new inbounding team.

Re: Correct Mechanic
 

Bu..., but, what if the throw-in is end line, front court? ;)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mick

Quote:

(Of course, first I'd have to see what the score is. :)) mick

That is too funny.

Re: Correct Mechanic
 

Almost...

After pointing to the "designated" spot, sweep the hand along the endline to indicate motion away from the spot.

Then indicate the direction.

Re: Re: Correct Mechanic
 

Oh, yeah.
That, too.
mick

This has been pretty well answered, but for my own benefit mostly I'm gonna chip in my $0.02. I'm sure somebody will check me if I've missed something here.

There are no pivot foot restrictions or traveling rule restrictions during a throw-in. As long as the thrower keeps one foot on or over (meaning he can jump up and down any number of times) the spot, he's okay. The rules do not specify which foot, or that it has to be the same foot for the entire throw-in. Conceivably he could move quite a distance if he were to move left until his right foot was at the left edge of the 3 foot area, then back to his right until his left foot was at the right edge of the three foot area.

Here are the relevant rules from the FED book:

4-41-6 The designated throw-in spot is 3 feet wide with no depth limitation and is established by the official prior to putting the ball at the thrower's disposal.
NOTE: The thrower must keep one foot on or over the spot until the ball is released. Pivot-foot restrictions and the traveling rule are not in effect for a throw-in.

9-2 A player shall not violate the following provisions governing the throw-in. The thrower shall not:
1 ... Leave the designated throw-in spot until the ball has been released on a throw-in pass.

As for the mechanics, I was not able to locate a reference. However signals 2, 21, 25, and 26 seem to cover it. Mick, Camron, you folks have an officials manual reference for this?

The mechanic I have used a time or two (especially in November and December) is two hands over the head clutching an imaginary ball, and then throwing the imaginary ball forward. Then you turn to the player and say, "Did you play soccer this fall?"

Kind of interesting
 

Your $00.02 is exactly the opposite of what our inquirer will chip in :)

It's easy to spot the teams that have just finished up playing soccer. They line up for the jump with each team in their own defensive half. And when they substitute, the incoming players wait on the sideline for the player they are replacing to come out first. Had this happen once this year, brought back fond memories of my days playing soccer :)

Hey basketball committee!
 

The best thing about the soccer substitutions is that the incoming player must be in the proper position to enter (or have checked in with the scorer/4th official) PRIOR to the ball becoming dead which creates that substitution opportunity.
This speeds up the game quite a bit and should be employed in basketball too.