Player with 5 fouls shooting FT

[donfowler]

Weird play last night in HS girls varisty game. Very physical game and several players on both sides out of game in 4th qtr. Here is the play...Home team down to 3 players and still had the lead with 2 minutes to go. T calls foul on B1 and A1 will be shooting 2. A1 then throws ball at B1 who is laying on floor. Technical called, which is A1's fifth.
The 3 man crew knew we had a false double foul and under normal circumstances the sub would shoot her FT. Since there were no subs available, we allowed her to shoot her FT before sitting down.
Team B shot 2FT and had ball. B down by 4 at this point won by 6.
We know we were wrong by the rules. Any suggestions on how to handle this situation differently???

[BktBallRef]

I don't think anyone wants any part of this play Don!

But I'll give you an opinion. I probably would have allowed either o the other two players to shoot the 2 FTs before I would have allowed A1 to shoot them. Let the coach decide which of the two players he wants to shoot them and have at it. But since B won anyway, you probably won't hear anything of your decision, at least from the winning coach.

Just curious. How many players did Team A start out with?

[BigDave]

Sounds to me with all of that stuff going on, the best thing to do was to clear the whole gym and put a BIG checkmark by that school on the "don't wanna go back" list...

On a serious note, with the kind of play and sportsmanship that was being displayed, I'd be calling my association to report this. If you guys had already fouled several players out and they were STILL throwing the ball at each other, there needs to be something done. Situations like these can get ugly/dangerous real quick. I have no problem with "physical play", but a total lack of respect for the game, opponents and officials should not be tolerated.

On a positive note, I respect you for "toughing it out", Don. Way to go!

[Brian Watson]

In the dictionary that would be next to ugly.

My guess is that you follow the rule book, and handle in order 1) Report the foul 2) Remove the player with 5 3) Clear the lane, and let one of the two remaining players shoot 4) Shoot the T 5) End the game and run off the floor.

Seriously, did the AD at least apologize? You can bet your next game check I would be sending in a full game report and a tape to the state.

[rainmaker]

As a new ref, I've always got more questions than answers. Here's the most confusing one for me: When do you decide to forfeit the game? What if the partners disagree? If the attitude is this bad, why should it even go on?

[walter]

By rule, only the referee has the authority to forfeit the game if conditions warrant. The referee shall make decisions on any points not specifiaclly covered within the rules. This authority is given to the referee under rule 2. That being said, I truly feel for the officials who worked this game. Obviously very ugly. Obviously no help at all from the coaching staffs of either team. Neither team changed style of play (at least from what I read from the post). The officials did all they could to enforce order and it didn't matter. The problem you have with calling the game is that it was still competitive. Ugly but competitive as indicated by the score. The officials were in a tight uncomfortable spot. I don't think forfeiting would have been the way to go. They did what they could. They kept blowing the whistle and penalizing the offenders. I guess one thing they could have done is call both coaches together and explain that the game is out of control, they are blowing the whistle and the girl's aren't responding, and they need the coaches help to try and correct it by talking to their players. However, it doesn't sound as if the coaches would have been that much help any way!!! I agree with an earlier post, report it to the assigner of the game, both school administrations, and the state. As for the free throws for the "T", either of the remaining two players shoots the free throws. The girl who threw the ball is gone. UGLY, UGLY, UGLY!!! Congrats to the officials who stuck it out!!!

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by rainmaker
As a new ref, I've always got more questions than answers. Here's the most confusing one for me: When do you decide to forfeit the game? What if the partners disagree? If the attitude is this bad, why should it even go on?

It's the Referee's decision to forfeit the game (see, there's more to being the R than just tossing the ball). 2-5-4

I think I'd only call a forfeit for safety reaasons. It's unclear from the original post whether A1's throwing the ball was just frustration or something that had been building up and could explode into further action.

I'd also bring the coaches together and "warn" (although I try to never use that word, except when it's one of the three required warnings in the book) them that they needed to control their teams.

On the original question (A1 fouls out, no subs, who shoots?): Any of the remaining players (A2 or A3) can take A1's shots. 8-2

[MREUROREF]

QUOTE BY WATSON: My guess is that you follow the rule book, and handle in order 1) Report the foul 2) Remove the player with 5 3) Clear the lane, and let one of the two remaining players shoot 4) Shoot the T 5) End the game and run off the floor.
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If you are actually admin. the fouls in order. Could someone say since they didn't happen at the same time, then they can't be penalized at the same time. 1st the player got foul so they shot. Next, foul was a T, so now the player leaves (after free throw with clear lane) and now the opposing team will shot their Technical foul shots. For convience we'll consolidate the reports for the trip to the table, but they are actually seperate events to be administrated and penalized seperately. Does this make since or is it bending the intent of the rule?

My thought is that the penalty for any unruly behavior has to be handled, SWIFTLY! So if your fifth foul and you have to leave esspecially if it's on the count of USL Conduct then, OFF YOU GO.

[Peter Devana]

You got away with it - good thinking in a tough situation, however its always better to sit the disqualified player-You certainly wouldn't have allowed an ejected player to take the shots?? Let one of the remaining players take the shots.
Pistol

[MREUROREF]

Right, No Shot.

[Hoosier]

Take a look at Rule 8 section 2. It states that if the player entitled to the FT becomes diabled or disqualified and if there is no substitute, and teammate may attempt the throw(s).