Boys' varsity game today, rival teams tied for 2nd in conference. I'm in an unusual spot--the second row of the stands. I don't go and watch many high school games unless I'm reffing. I was overwhelmed by the treatment of two fine officials who were calling a good game. The game was ugly, their calls were consistent. It didn't matter though. Anytime they were in earshot of the bleachers, the yelling, name-calling, cussing, and insulting were inevitable. There was one technical in the game, the home team assistant slammed his clipboard down in front of the ref after a travel call. I felt it was justified. Naturally everyone went ballistic.

I actually tried to tell one official at the 3rd quarter break, "You guys are calling a great game!" And he shot me a look. He was so used to the poor treatment, he seemed to be convinced I was being sarcastic.

Why don't people realize--we are their neighbors. Their kids' friends' parents. Our wives go to Pampered Chef parties with their wives. Maybe we actually even go to church with them. What is it about putting on the stripes that makes us a fair target for anyone, child or adult?

I to have sat in the stands at games and watched good officiating be taken horribly by fans. I think some people just feel like they have a right to yell and scream since they paid there whole $5 to get in.

What is really difficult to do is hold yourself back from commenting after some fan makes a stupid remark (yes, it is possible!). If I know the person pretty well I will try to explain the call,<i>a little bit</i>. The one I have to constantly teach fans in is the Over and Back (3 pts=?). It is very odd how reasonable people can turn into attack dogs whenever there team is on the line, just goes to show how important competition is to some people. Well I hope that these posts prompt some good disussion, hopefully with some more insite on how to help solve some of these problems.

"You Suck!” shouted the father in front of his school-age boy, "Over-the-Back, three seconds!", etc… Just think of all the things that boy was being taught at that gym.

I witness this banter at the gym in nearly every game I officiate or attend as a spectator.

The sad reality is that we have a lifetime of “learned” behavior to overcome. Most view this challenge as overwhelming and choose to not address the ever-present disrespectful and unsportsmanlike attitudes displayed at most sporting events.

”Johnny” watches as his father unjustifiably blasting the officials. Many game managers would rather ignore or minimize the behavior than deal with it appropriately. In fact, some threads have identified that some game “managers” are the source of the problem.

That's how our culture of “rip the ref” perseveres. It's handed down from generation to generation.

We should not tolerate this.

Based on my increased awareness of incidents of verbal abuse that have escalated into physical violence, I have made a conscientious decision, and hope that I and others have the courage to follow through, to stop such behavior as much as I can.

Ahhhh
 

Do you want the officials too be cheered after every whistle call. The yelling could be that maybe just maybe the official has made a bad call and it's a person's right to scream and yell if they feel the need to. This is the same case in how people on this board can criticize me for my post and how parents can criticize me for any call I make during the game. This is the way things have been for officials since the beginning of time, in our society the official is not overally respected and I feel a big part of that is because the discipline of officials is not known to the general public. I know I hear one of the biggest complaints and it is a complaint I have is no one knows when an official is disciplined for making mistakes. It's obvious if a coach or player is disciplined but an official no one ever knows and eventhough most officials feel they are better than the players and coaches they are not. When they do a poor job they should be disciplined for making mistakes, until the public is aware this is happening the treatment of officials by fans will continue. Sorry for my rant but I look forward to your criticism.

BBallCoach - thanks I need a laugh this afternoon. You are a very good troll. When I get older, I will purchase one of those really cheesy porcelain trolls and put in my front yard. Every time I come home, I will think of you. :p

Z

Gotta disagree,Z. He ain't one of the better trolls. He's too obvious. Being a troll can be an art sometime. This clown isn't at that level. Yet. He do keep trying though.

Re: Ahhhh
 

You need to try harder. As a troll, you suck. Hard.

Re: Ahhhh
 

Idiots in the stands wouldn't know a good call if it bit them in the backsides. Today I worked a bunch of kids games (which I don't do often) and heard the entire range of stupidity. Shouts of TRAVEL when no player has possession, shouts of CARRY on high dribbles when no hand came to rest under the ball, shouts of THREE SECONDS when the ball is bouncing around the rim.

There is nothing 99.999999999999% of the coaches and fans could ever teach me about officiating a game except the fact that they couldn't do it well although they think they can. The exceptions are either officials themselves or some of the good coaches that have been coming around here.

Hint: Not you.

--Rich

I call it the "Jekyl and Hyde" thing. When your kid or your team is involved, you turn into another person.

"Sports doesn't build character, it reveals it."

Or

"Sports doesn't build character, it builds characters."


When coaches defend idiot parents, it tells me a lot about those coaches.

Re: Ahhhh
 

Oh my God, I'm laughing so hard, I think I'm going to puke.

Why shouldnt the public know when an official is punished
 

Why should the public not be made aware of when an official has screwed up and has been disciplined? Are you not public workers who are being paid by the tax dollars that the local community pays to the school?

Is there a psychiatrist in the house?

I'll bite BBallCoach. Only because we had a letter to the editor in our student newspaper this week on the subject. I'll respond here the same way I did for the paper. The subject here is more directed at high school and below where the letter this week was more toward college and pro. But they speak to the same thing. Everyone, officials included, is accountable to someone. Here in Indiana, it is the coach and AD who hire officials. In other states, it is the association that assigns officials. The NFL this past season fines Tom White's crew half of thier game fee for improperly handling the clock in the Baltimore/Seattle game. The officials on the BYU/New Mexico game were penalized for the way the game was handled.

Fans are fans. If you support a team, you are unhappy when things go against your team. I still get unhappy with calls against the teams I pull for, I just don't get quite as vocal as I once did. I also look at things more subjectively. As long as a fan doesn't get vulger, I really don't care.

Your statement was "why shouldn't the public be aware when an official has screwed up and been punished. Aren't you public workers that the community taxes pay for?" I don't really even want to get into where the money we get comes from. But if your contention is that the public has a right to know these things because they pay fees, then shouldn't they also be alerted to when you or your players make mistakes. Instead of telling that a player has been suspended for breaking team rules, tell that he got caught using drugs. Or maybe we should have the paper print your yearly evaluation and salary. Shouldn't I as a tax payer know that my taxes are being put to good use?

My last comment is that I'm curious just how good your team is. If you spend half as much time coaching as you do writing in here, the state title must be on your mantle.

Re: Why shouldnt the public know when an official is punished
 

Nope -- I'm an independent contractor. I don't care where the money comes from.

Perhaps detailed evaluations of coaches should be published too. Or maybe people should come into practices and offer their opinions. I mean, you are paid from tax dollars, right?

AxMan
 

Thank you for your feedback. Last time I checked anyone member of a public school has their salarly posted in the annual school report, I would assume every state does the same. And yes actually there is a state title but it is not hanging in on my mantle but in our school's trophy case. Thanks for the support:)

It is laughable in my opinion to say that officials aren't accountable. An official's accountability is in his schedule. If an official does a bad job consistently, he simply won't get the top games, or if the level of officiating drops by an official, their schedule will not be as good as it was before. What type of accountability do you want? Do you want it published when an official get downgraded or criticized by an assignor? Imagine what that would do if the fans got hold of that information? Along the same lines, I want to know as an official what action a school takes against a coach when he acts inappropriately or gets a technical foul for unsportsmanlike behavior. If a coach cusses me out and I have to report it, shouldn't I find out what happened to the coach and how the school disciplined him? Bottom line, coaches and officials are both accountable, but not to each other and that's how it should stay.

Officials get 'disciplined' by not being hired for games and tournaments. Sometimes rightly so and sometimes not.

As for me, I am still looking for my "perfect" game. I never found it as a coach, either.

Apparently not obvious for some of the officials here. Look how worked up he is getting some of our fellow zebras.

Z

Not Fair
 

An official's accountability is in his schedule. If an official does a bad job consistently, he simply won't get the top games, or if the level of officiating drops by an official, their schedule will not be as good as it was before.

THat is not good enough their should be fines or suspensions. A bad ref should not be able to continue officiating just at a lower level that is not fair to those teams at that level.

Z Man,

The reason I get some of you worked up is cause I actually bring up issues that make you look at yourself and when you do your scared by what you see. Therefore you attack and become negative. There are a few keys to basketball and one is no one is ever going to treat the officials like you folks would want to be treated until people see that you have some accountability for your actions. You're not demi gods and are subject to make mistakes whether it be in terms of applying the rules or in terms of what you "think" you saw. I find it funny that you are so upset everytime someone questions the job you do. What other job in the country does not allow people to critique the job that they do fairly or unfairly? Have a great day Z Man.

Your Fav Troll Coach

Re: Not Fair
 

How exactly do you fine an independent contractor? How do you suspend an independent contractor based on something as shaky as "we think they blew a call"?

You can troll (not well), but when someone puts forth legitimate questions back at you, you don't seem to respond. Typical.

--Rich

The Original Point
 

The original point I was trying to make was not whether officials are accountable. It is the method in which they are accountable. I'm talking about just plain decency being modeled for our children. Most of us don't go into a profane tirade, especially in front of our children, if our waiter/waitress is botching everything. In our society, behavior that is socially inacceptable becomes acceptable--if it's addressed at an official.

Previously, BBallCoach, I accused you of not really being a coach. You've got too much time on your hands. Thank you for confirming it by claiming to be a state champion. Even Hitler knew people would believe a big lie before they will believe a small one. I give you credit for trying!

Everyone slow down so that BBallCoach can understand.

INDEPENDENT..............Contractor (a complex concept for him)


IF you don't like the contractor.........you don't hire him.
(kinda like your plumber)

DUH!!!

(If this keeps up, he's gonna give the stereotype of dumb coaches a bad name.)

Yawn. I said it before and I'll say it again. Why does anybody try to answer this idiot in a serious manner? Just stop. Ignore him. He's an idiot and he doesn't want to stop being an idiot.

I agree! Let's change the subject then....what if we could somehow, magically, take a peek at Boss George's most recent diary entries....

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/22/opinion/22KENN.html

February 22, 2004
OP-ED CONTRIBUTOR
The Steinbrenner Diaries
By JOHN KENNEY

We understand that John Henry must be embarrassed, frustrated and disappointed by his failure in this transaction. Unlike the Yankees, he chose not to go the extra distance for his fans in Boston."

— George Steinbrenner on the Yankees' acquisition of Alex Rodriguez, whom Henry, owner of the Red Sox, failed to obtain from the Texas Rangers.

FEB. 14 (LATE) I cannot seem to stop laughing. The more I think about Boston, the harder I laugh. I don't mean to be cruel, but I must say I enjoy the feeling tremendously. I'm laughing so hard I just spit up soup. Alex Rodriguez. How will the residents of Boston feel when they see the newspaper tomorrow morning? Is there nothing I can't have? I shall try to buy a space shuttle. Maybe give it to Jeter.

FEB. 15 There is something about Boston I find quaint. The Federalist architecture, the cobblestone streets, the constant losing. Also, there is that lovely little park across from the Ritz with the pedal-powered boats. The swan boats, I think they are called. I shall buy the swan boats. This I like. I will fill in that little moat and in its place put in a go-cart track. And all the go-carts will have swans with maniacal looks painted on their faces and fire coming out of their little beaks. Again with the laughing. "Make Way for Go-Carts." Stuff that in your Caldecott Medal.

MONDAY I do not like the name "A-Rod." It doesn't sound right. "Alexander" is so much more regal. Ask him, by which I mean demand of him, that he go by the full name. Also, Ruth didn't actually "build" the place. It's just an expression.

TUESDAY I want to buy more things in Boston. Just thinking about it makes me feel warm. Once I punched a sleeping badger in a zoo because I thought he disrespected me. I like the state house in Boston. There's a gold dome and it was designed by Bulfinch and I think I could move it to the spring training facility and put in a food court.

WEDNESDAY Look into buying the rights to the word "Boston."

THURSDAY I awoke this morning and jotted down this thought from a particularly vivid dream: contact Bucky Dent. Pay him to move to Boston. Finance his candidacy for mayor. (Do they even have a mayor, or are they too small? City? Town? Which is it?)

FRIDAY Why do the Red Sox whine so? John Henry says baseball doesn't have an answer for the Yankees. Not true. It's called the off-season. I'm having two special hats handmade in Cuba. Stitched on the front are dollar signs. I'm sending them to John Henry and his little boy general manager — here's your salary cap. Maybe I'll also send them a pair of Sergio Valente sunglasses from my collection.

SATURDAY Consider buying Boston's soul. Although, if I think about it, they already sold it to us with Babe Ruth. Again I'm laughing. I wonder if David Beckham would be interested in playing baseball?

John Kenney, a lifelong Red Sox fan, lives in Brooklyn.

Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company

I agree! I'd like to change back to the original subject, and ask refs to discuss the original question, while still ignoring the various troll posts. What CAN refs do, if anything, to reduce the scapegoating and completely destructive abuse of officials that goes on in all sports and in most situations?

uhhhhh.....what was the question again?

Oh. Massive pro-officiating publicity campaigns, serious legislation with harsh penalties for violence against officials at all levels. That oughta work.

Short of that, nothing much to do IMO.

Private schools???
 

Well, that just shows how uniformed and uneducated you really are. Not all officials are hired and work at public schools. Last night I worked at a Catholic School and I think it would be very hard to require a private institution does not answer to any government agency about where their money comes from and how it is used, is rather silly. So if I get fired from the Catholic League I worked last night, who are they going to report it to? And we are not employees and have no salary. We are paid from a contract to contract basis, and I would be lucky if I got more that $60 from one school in an entire year. My salary comes from my job and that does not have to be posted by anyone in the public. Please, you really cannot be in education can you? You are one of the dumbest individuals I have seen here.


That sound inconsistent with your theory. If you are as much an a$$ as you are here that you are in real life, then the officials would have screwed you in such a way, that would never have been possible. So I do not believe you have any trophy, at least not one you had apart of.

Peace

State Title
 

Please feel free to believe what you would like to believe about me. I know the job I have done and am proud of it. I try to give everyone here a different view to think about when it comes to basketball. Most of you take great offense to my posts and Im surprised by that, but that is your choice. I do appreciate all of you who take time to respond to my posts and I try to learn something from this board everyday. Now if you think Im going to leave this board prasing the tough job officials have your crazy but I try to learn:)

all due respect
 

I'm relatively new to reffing and this forum...I have had the pleasure of being on the floor with some really great refs, who also are great teachers of the game, I've met some coach's that knew more than I did who didn't rub it in my face...but met some that needed to look at why they were still doing it...I've asked some dumb questions but NEVER recieved an answer that wasn't given with respect...to give BSktball his due, I look for his answers because even a newbie can understand his reasoning. It kind of confuses me when refs start ripping on other refs when we have enough people ripping on us already...I look for a place of comaraderie and exchanging of ideas and experiences...maybe its naive of me but I am enjoing this reffing...looking to improve and maybe being able to call a game like my teachers are trying to show me...thanks enough said

Re: all due respect
 

Since you're a newbie, we'll cut you the slack! ;)

You've got to take everything bballcoach says in greater context. Lately I've noticed he's on a fake-polite kick, talking about how much he appreciates our feedback. It's interesting, because about a week ago he was absolutely ripping everything any of us said. There are a few coaches on this forum you can listen to and learn from (Hawkscoach, for one). But Bballcoach is a 12-year-old who has fun inciting referees because he's no good at basketball. This is the only forum he's found where he has any power or control, and we give it to him.

Personally, I get a kick out of him. I'm sure Jung and Freud would too. Not enough attention at home and such.

Re: Why shouldnt the public know when an official is punished
 

Are you in charge of the committee that sets our "pay"? If so, how about a raise?

don't hate
 

bball coach: I can't understand why you hate us so much. I would really like to know what your hatred comes from. Is it that you have a general dislike for officials? Just let us know what the problem is?

My response to the legitimate requests to what refs can do to improve fans behavior, etc: Every season, regardless of level, should start with a formal parents/players/coaches discussion with referee association representatives. The discussions should cover all the basic rule misconceptions (e.g., "over the back", carry, traveling, etc), and an explanation of the idea of ad/disad. Part of the discussion should be the admission that, while all refs follow the same rule book, interpretation of rules sometimes makes for a little difference in the calling of a game. Discussion participants need to understand ahead of time the meeting is not a vent session, just an opportunity to understand the game better.

Have some rule and casebooks on-hand. Sell them.

As in any situation, you won't get 100% buy-in. But, chances are, you'll reach a few people in each of those discussions. Those people will gain a better understanding of the game, and pass that along to the people around them at the games. Heck, you might even recruit a couple of referees.

I still say that we should administer the 100 question test to BallBreakerCoach and see if he can even get 50% of them correct. Then at least we will know for sure that the reason he needs to bash is due to his complete lack of knowledge of the rules.

And my previous challenge stands from one of his other posts... Have your team play your biggest rival without any officials and let us know how that goes...

Hmmm, the test I take has 100 True or False questions. I'm no mathemetician, but I done gradiated the 6th grade and even I know that the pure odds are 50% right. :D Maybe you should set the bar just a bit higher, but not too high that he can't reach it.:eek:

Mregor

How about 51%. That way he will have to think about 1 question....

What classy responses
 

So good to hear so many positive and classy responses from my dear friends the zebras. Now you must explain one thing to me, how is it that you are always complaining about the lack of respect you get, but in the same notion most of you just insult me, my coaching ability and my knowledge of the rules. Isn't it a bit hypercritical to demand respect but not show respect? I feel that all my posts have touched some nerves among members of the board and I find that very interesting. Why is it so many zebras are upset with me?

Your Favorite Coach,

BBallCoach :)

Beacuse you come here with a single agenda and that is to cause turmoil and controversy and for no other reason then to release some kind of pent up feelings of inadequecy.

I have read several of your posts and you have not contributed a single thing of value to the purpose of this board. You just seem to want to get your rocks off seeing how far you can push people because you can't do it on the court because the "zebras" as you call us are all out to get you.

They have treatments for paranoia these days. Maybe you should look in to them.

All of the other coaches on this forum are very well respected because they make a solid effort to learn and contribute value to the discussions at hand. For instance, if I were working a game being coached by our friend 'A Pennsylvania Coach' and he said I kicked one, I would probably have to believe him because he has made an effort to see the game from our side and an effort to fully understand the rules.

Instead of trying to be outrageous and confrontational all the time how about trying to be worth the air you breath.

Here we go again
 

Here we go again, kicking around the poor, beleagured, thought-provoking, polite BBC. Let's give his ideas their due--some serious thought and response!

<i>Why should the public not be made aware of when an official has screwed up and has been disciplined?</i>

Whatever happened to the old public stocks? Whenever an official makes a call that a fan, coach, or player doesn't like, they can be put in the stocks in the public square. I suppose the ol' dunce cap in the corner of the gym would work, too. C'mon, guys, are we really that afraid of opening ourselves up to the criticism of the experts?

<i>Are you not public workers who are being paid by the tax dollars that the local community pays to the school?</i>

Perhaps a government office to oversee the proper discipline of officials would be in order, since we're apparently employed by the government. Sort of like the CIA. How about the BOOB--Board Of Official Bashing. I have a nomination for head BOOB!