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-   -   Mouthy Assistant Coach (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/12176-mouthy-assistant-coach.html)

Bchill24 Mon Feb 09, 2004 01:34pm

Last night I was officiating 7th & 8th Surburban boys game. It was a very close game with about 5 minutes to play. Team A is up by 4 points. Assistant coach of Team B was running his mouth. Saying, foul, over the back, traveling, etc...
I politely went over to the assistant coach and said coach, I have heard enough, please be quiet and he complied.I didn't want to T him up because the game was close and I really didn't want to punish the kids, for the action of their assistant coach. Soon as I went to take my position as the lead official, I hear the assistant start to yack again right in front of my P. You know what happened wham my partner T him up, not once but twice. See ya later, four free throws all good, possession 3 pointer, bam 7 quick points now Team B is down by 11, game over, thanks coach.

Hawks Coach Mon Feb 09, 2004 02:14pm

Head coach needed to understand that he has to shut this guy up at this point. I had a mouthy (former) assistant who was hard to shut up, but would if the ref said something and I turned and told him I didn't need a T at this point in the game. It was hard to get him to listen to me alone, and sometimes to a ref alone, but both of us was usually enough to do the job.

Sounds like you tried to help him, he didn't choose to accept it, and his team paid the price. If the head coach is smart he'll nip it in the bud.

icallfouls Mon Feb 09, 2004 03:32pm

Sounds like you handled it perfectly. The way the rule is right now, the asst. coach is not allowed to do much more than hold a clipboard. What I like to do is, verbally inform the head coach and asst coach, along with giving the stop signal, that I have had enough. This is useful when looking at game tape as it is clear that you addressed the problem and gave the coach(es) an out. After that it is on the head coach to be sure that the asst. coach doesn't cost the team, especially down the stretch.

Hopefully you notified your partner of the warning, and they were their job of backing you up. There is nothing worse than looking at your partner and it appears that you are being "sold down the river." It is equally important that since you are likely the "unknown" official in most games, that you back up your partner as well. You are most likely to be the one with a target on your back, so just let the coaches know where the line is and take action as necessary.

My two cents worth.

ChuckElias Mon Feb 09, 2004 10:02pm

Ben, JMO, but I wouldn't even deal with the asst. coach. I would go to the head coach and say, "Coach, your assistant is about to cost you 2 free throws. You want to take of it, or you want me to?"

gostars Mon Feb 09, 2004 10:40pm

If an asstant gets a T do both coaches lose the coaching box? (Assuming that it happened in a coaching box state?)

mick Mon Feb 09, 2004 10:54pm

Quote:

Originally posted by gostars
If an asstant gets a T do both coaches lose the coaching box? (Assuming that it happened in a coaching box state?)
gostars,
YU.P.
The cost : 2 throws, the ball and a sit down.
Expensive! ;)

mick

Back In The Saddle Mon Feb 09, 2004 10:56pm

Quote:

Originally posted by gostars
If an asstant gets a T do both coaches lose the coaching box? (Assuming that it happened in a coaching box state?)
Yes and no :) The head coach loses the coaching box. The assistant coach is not ever entitled to the coaching box, and therefore cannot lose the priviledge that he did not have ;)

mick Mon Feb 09, 2004 11:15pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Back In The Saddle
The assistant coach is not ever entitled to the coaching box, and therefore cannot lose the priviledge that he did not have ;)
Back In The Saddle,
Nice catch! ;)
mick


SMEngmann Tue Feb 10, 2004 01:31am

I agree with the post that said deal directly with the HC in that situation. Same with other bench personnel (managers, subs, etc), except maybe if the mouthy assistant is the varsity HC in the JV game. Tell the HC to control his bench, if he doesn't, control it for him with the T. No need to dignify the assistant's comments directly with a response.

Back In The Saddle Tue Feb 10, 2004 03:18am

Quote:

Originally posted by SMEngmann
...except maybe if the mouthy assistant is the varsity HC in the JV game.
How do you deal with this situation?

Nevadaref Tue Feb 10, 2004 06:17am

Quote:

Originally posted by Back In The Saddle
Quote:

Originally posted by SMEngmann
...except maybe if the mouthy assistant is the varsity HC in the JV game.
How do you deal with this situation?

That's great! Make sure you whack him in the JV game and he will be a peach in Varsity game. :)

dblref Tue Feb 10, 2004 07:47am

Quote:

Originally posted by Back In The Saddle
Quote:

Originally posted by SMEngmann
...except maybe if the mouthy assistant is the varsity HC in the JV game.
How do you deal with this situation?

Had sort of this situation last night. BJV game, assistant coach (home varsity) was sitting at the end of the gym in the doorway to the coach(es) office. Couple of times up and down the court, he had smart-a** comments. Finally told him he did not have a dog in that fight and to keep his comments to himself. He told me I was officiating at the right level (meaning JV - I am a varsity official doing a FB/JV doubleheader). I had the AD remove him from that area. One of the varsity crew members (3-person) did not show and I became the 3rd. Imagine the look of surprise on the face of the assistant when he saw me in the varsity game. I just smiled and smiled.

mick Tue Feb 10, 2004 08:24am

Quote:

Originally posted by dblref
.... I had the AD remove him from that area. One of the varsity crew members (3-person) did not show and I became the 3rd. Imagine the look of surprise on the face of the assistant when he saw me in the varsity game. I just smiled and smiled.

Poetry in motion. :)

footlocker Tue Feb 10, 2004 09:47am

That's awesome dblref.

I don't want asst coaches talking to me, so I don't talk to them. Most I have ever said to one is, "Watch it." If something really needs to be said, then ChuckElias said it best. "Coach (HC), help me out with your bench or I'm going to have to take care of it." 'nuff said. 9 out of 10 times, the HC will take care of it.

garote Tue Feb 10, 2004 10:22am

I don't know about the rest of you but asst. coaches rate slightly higher than tree sap.:D
The HC gets one warning about his/her asst. then wack. Now if its a time out and they have a legit question and its not heated I'll chat...any "tone" and I tell them I'll only talk to the head coach.

[Edited by garote on Feb 11th, 2004 at 06:54 AM]

DJ Tue Feb 10, 2004 10:29am

Sap?
 
I will talk to anyone that has a question as long as it is at the right time and it is done with respect. Tree Sap? You or the assistant coach? Nice attitude!

DownTownTonyBrown Tue Feb 10, 2004 11:07am

Downhill
 
I know of some other things that run downhill besides tree sap... and a mouthy assistant can get right in there and slog around in the downhill flow. There is no room for an assistant to do anything more than what his boss, the HC, tells him to do.

I fully agree with some of the others that the HC should control his monkey. I recently had difficulty where I was getting along great with the HC but the A$$-is-tant wanted to be stupid. I wanted to T him but I didn't want to penalize the HC or the team... things were going very smooth except for the JV dingbat.

The idiot came out to midcourt to tell us how we should be calling things. Three steps in our direction and I had my stop sign up and I told him to stop three times. I told him "You need to get off the court. You shouldn't be out here." With my hand on his shoulder I guided him back to the sidelines. His response as he ckicken littled away... "Don't give me any crap!"

Ooooh, I wanted to T the ignorant, ungrateful jackass. I wish I had but I'm glad I didn't. HC and I got along fine. A$$-is-tant remained relatively quiet. They lost by 3. A Technical on the JV dork and it might have been 7. And I would likely have created tension with the head coach. HC and I have since then talked (next game) so he knows the situation.

Jurassic Referee Tue Feb 10, 2004 11:11am

Quote:

Originally posted by garote
I don't know about the rest of you but asst. coaches rate slightly higher that tree sap.

Disagree. I like maple syrup.I'd rate the tree sap <b>much</b> higher.

Dan_ref Tue Feb 10, 2004 11:39am

Re: Downhill
 
Quote:

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown

The idiot came out to midcourt to tell us how we should be calling things. Three steps in our direction and I had my stop sign up and I told him to stop three times. I told him "You need to get off the court. You shouldn't be out here." With my hand on his shoulder I guided him back to the sidelines. His response as he ckicken littled away... "Don't give me any crap!"

Interesting I had nearly the same sitch, except as the assistant wandered onto the court "Hey ref, lemme ask you sumthin'..." I walked right by him, broke into the huddle and told the head coach he needs to control his assistant.

And FWIW, I have learned to never put my hands on a coach. It might seem like a good way to guide him off the flor, but one fine day one of them's gonna turn to you and say "Take your hands off me!" and he'll be right.

DownTownTonyBrown Tue Feb 10, 2004 12:27pm

Re: Re: Downhill
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref
I walked right by him, broke into the huddle and told the head coach he needs to control his assistant.

"Coach, your assitant is wandering around like he's lost."

I like it. I would also like to try just walking to another location on the court and see if he will follow... if you could get him to follow you to 2 or 3 different locations that would be pretty funny ... and by then the timeout would be over... If you could get him trapped out on the court away from his bench when the timeout ends, that would be hilarious.

footlocker Tue Feb 10, 2004 02:54pm

danref- i totally agree. hands off.

thumpferee Tue Feb 10, 2004 04:13pm

Curious, is the assistant coach bench personel? Direct on assist. and indirect on HC?

'02-'03 Rules Book Rule 10.4.5
See penalty

Nevadaref Thu Feb 12, 2004 06:14am

Quote:

Originally posted by thumpferee
Curious, is the assistant coach bench personel? Direct on assist. and indirect on HC?

'02-'03 Rules Book Rule 10.4.5
See penalty

Yes, 4-34-2. So Yes on the indirect. 10-4 penalty

Indy_Ref Thu Feb 12, 2004 01:41pm

Re: Re: Downhill
 
Quote:

Originally posted by BushRef
Quote:

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown

The idiot came out to midcourt to tell us how we should be calling things. Three steps in our direction and I had my stop sign up and I told him to stop three times. I told him "You need to get off the court. You shouldn't be out here." With my hand on his shoulder I guided him back to the sidelines. His response as he ckicken littled away... "Don't give me any crap!"


That right there deserved 2 shots, no matter how buddy buddy you are with the coach.

AGREED!!


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