Pushing it

[Nevadaref]

This might be pushing it, but let's just suppose....

During a heated game an official makes a foul call against W21. While he is reporting W34, who is a sub on the bench and has not yet played in the game, stands up and yells at the official criticizing the call. The official charges W34 with a technical foul. After reporting the T, the scorer informs the official that there is not a #34 listed in the book for White. It turns out that either (a) the kid is listed as #43 or (b) the kid is not listed at all in the book.

It seems that the scorer must now make a change to the book in order to properly record the T on W34, even though he has never become a player in the game, and this would necessitate an additional team technical foul being charged to white.

Comments?

[David B]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
This might be pushing it, but let's just suppose....

During a heated game an official makes a foul call against W21. While he is reporting W34, who is a sub on the bench and has not yet played in the game, stands up and yells at the official criticizing the call. The official charges W34 with a technical foul. After reporting the T, the scorer informs the official that there is not a #34 listed in the book for White. It turns out that either (a) the kid is listed as #43 or (b) the kid is not listed at all in the book.

It seems that the scorer must now make a change to the book in order to properly record the T on W34, even though he has never become a player in the game, and this would necessitate an additional team technical foul being charged to white.

Comments?

What I would do is call it on the coach, he's responsible for bench personell. Then you don't have to worry about the book.

Thanks
David

[ChuckElias]

You can't call it on the coach. I think you have to call it on the kid. If the kid is not in the book, then you have to add him and assess another T. If the kid is in the book, but the number is wrong, I might try to say that the scorer just copied it wrong from the program. That's a debatable one, I know.

But I don't think there's any question that the T is on the sub (and the indirect is on the coach), and that you add the name at that time, necessitating another T. The fact that the kid never checked into the game (never became a player) doesn't enter into it.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
The fact that the kid never checked into the game (never became a player) doesn't enter into it.

The kid checked in when he decided to stand up and criticize.

Now he's in the book!

[David B]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
You can't call it on the coach. I think you have to call it on the kid. If the kid is not in the book, then you have to add him and assess another T. If the kid is in the book, but the number is wrong, I might try to say that the scorer just copied it wrong from the program. That's a debatable one, I know.

But I don't think there's any question that the T is on the sub (and the indirect is on the coach), and that you add the name at that time, necessitating another T. The fact that the kid never checked into the game (never became a player) doesn't enter into it.

Chuck is right. I was thinking of the starter who is only penalized before the ball becomes live to start the game.

Any other player is "penalized when they occur".

Since he has commited a foul then he must be added to the book and thus the T is on the player and the indirect on the coach.

It helps to read the rule more carefully ... (g)

Thanks
David

[Mark Padgett]

It doesn't matter if the kid is in the book or not. He is still bench personnel if he is "part of" or "affiliated with" a team. See NF 4-34-2.

Plus - according to NF 4-34-4, since he is a member of bench personnel "who is in uniform and is eligible to become a player" (with a penalty, but still eligible), he is a "team member" and qualifies as official bench personnel, so he can get a direct T with an indirect going to the coach.