over the backboard

[rcwilco]

Varsity boys game. A1 is behind a rectangular backboard and as he is going OOB throws up a desperation shot or pass. The ball goes up and over the backboard then down through the basket. B1 fouls A1 as he is shooting. Your thoughts?

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by rcwilco
Varsity boys game. A1 is behind a rectangular backboard and as he is going OOB throws up a desperation shot or pass. The ball goes up and over the backboard then down through the basket. B1 fouls A1 as he is shooting. Your thoughts?

The ball is dead when it passes over the backboard. I don't think this could be considered a try, and I think I'd ignore the foul. But I wouldn't bet any money on that answer.

[rcwilco]

let me rephrase my question.....is it a foul on B1 with two shots, in spite of the violation by A1 or no try because it is a violation?

[One-Whistle]

Was the foul before or after the ball crossed over the backboard?

If before, administer appropriate penalty for a "Common" foul on B (FT, if Bonus).

If after, no foul. Award ball to B.

[Rodego]

My thoughts are it would be a common foul.

[One-Whistle]

Originally posted by Rodego
My thoughts are it would be a common foul.

Most likely a common foul; however; the ball becomes dead when the ball passes over the backboard. If this is so, then the foul should not be assessed.

[Rodego]

If he is fouled " in the act" it should be before the ball becomes dead?

[One-Whistle]

Originally posted by Rodego
If he is fouled " in the act" it should be before the ball becomes dead?

In this case, YES, because the ball becomes dead (Violation) when it passes over the backboard.

Think this through... A1 drives to the basket, picks up the ball, travels (Violation), then fouled by B1.

[zebraman]

If the foul occurred before the ball went over the backboard, we have a shooting foul don't we? I mean, it was a try because A1 was shooting at his own hoop. Passing over the backboard is "after the fact" and doesn't change the fact that the original attempt was a try.

Z

[Nevadaref]

To set a couple of things straight there are two cases here:
1. A1 shoots, is fouled by B1 in the act of shooting, then the ball passes over the rectangular backboard and enters the basket.
2. A1 shoots, the ball passes over the rectangular backboard, then B1 fouls A1 before the shooter returns to the floor, the ball then enters the basket.
RULINGS:
In the first case we have a player who is fouled while in the act of shooting during a live ball. The ball then becomes dead before the try is successful at the point when it passed over the board. The basket does not count due to the violation of causing the ball to pass over a rectangular backboard, but A1 should be awarded two shots for the personal foul committed by B1. Note that the foul is not a common foul since it was committed against a player trying for goal. See 4-19-2 for the def of a common foul.

In the second case a player causes the ball to pass over a rectangular backboard while trying for goal. This causes the ball to become dead. A1 is then fouled by B1 before returning to the floor. Although the contact occurred during a dead ball, it was committed against an airborne shooter and therefore should not be ignored. (4-19-1 Note) The official will not count the basket due to the violation of causing the ball to pass over the rectangular backboard and should penalize the personal foul against B1 by awarding A1 two free throws.

Note that if the shooter had returned to the floor before the contact occurred then it would no longer be against an airborne shooter and should be ignored. The game would resume with Team B being awarded the ball on the end line for the violation.

[One-Whistle]

Playing devil's advocate...

How would you explain this ruling to Coach B? Is A1 legitimately a "shooter" if he releases a ball from a location where it cannot be scored?

[zebraman]

NevadaRef,

Good clarification. Your interpretations of both situations are correct.

OneWhistle,

I seriously doubt if coach B is going to object. If he does object, the explanation is quite simple. A1 was fouled in the act of shooting. There is no rule that addresses the location from where a player attempts a try.
Z

[NICK]

Based on Fiba rules, I would have to count the basket (provided it has not touched any of the backboard supports or the back of the board), as the object of the game is to put the ball in the hoop. I might or might not consider it as an act of shooting depending on what I see although I would have to see this to make a decision. It is still legal play for the ball to go over the backboard, eg. after a shot and be rebounded, remain live and still be played, as long as nothing is touched by the ball on the way down, but as I said I am quoting Fiba rules.

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by One-Whistle
Playing devil's advocate...

How would you explain this ruling to Coach B? Is A1 legitimately a "shooter" if he releases a ball from a location where it cannot be scored?

Sadly most coaches don't have detailed rules knowledge. If I don't have HawksCoach and PAcoach on the benches this is going to be difficult.
However, the logic is the same as for the play in which a player starts the act of shooting, is fouled before releasing the ball, the horn ending the quarter then sounds, and finally the try is released.
Since the shot wasn't released before the horn the ball is dead and if the try is successful it doesn't count, but this is still a foul in the act of shooting and during a try that also "cannot be scored" as you put it, so the penalty is either 2 or 3 free-throws depending upon from where the try was attempted.