Last night...1st quarter...I'm L and call a foul in the paint on a shot. Cheerleaders are within 5 feet of me on the baseline and as I'm heading out to report, I hear one of them say, "That was all ball!" I continued out, reported my foul and gave my parnter a tweet and a hold on a sec. I step back down to the baseline and address the girl that said it. I told her that I wasn't going to do any cheering and she was not going to do any officiating. This girl is bold!!! She looks me right in the eye and says, "OK, but THAT was all ball!"

I take the 80 foot walk to the other end of the court to get my administrator in charge...and request his presence on the other end. The fans are now in an uproar...it felt like they were laughing at me for not being able to handle a cheerleader...or for going to tattle on the cheerleader. The entire time, I'm thinking this is crap and what could I be doing differently. WAY too much focus on me for too long!!!

The admin got the sponsor to go have a chat with them, and we had no other problems the rest of the night.

I'm open to suggestions!

Next time just step on her foot!!!! LOL No seriously, you might wanted to wait for a dead ball or time out then you can go to the cheerleader that said it and address it then instead of holding up the game..

Go deaf
 

If ever there was a time to act as though you heard nothing. . .because you did hear nothing. If you can ignore a coach, who might know a LITTLE bit about basketball, you ought to be able to ignore a cheerleader!

I would have ignored her. Although the situation sounds hilarious...I mean, just imagining a cheerleader saying....ehh, you know where I'm going with this.

BK -

Wow. Beckoning the game Administrator because a cheerleader says "That was all ball."

In addition to the cheerleaders, did you also oversee the popcorn stand?

Reminds me of a Little League baseball game I saw last summer: Ump stops game and marches 200 feet to center field fence to tell a couple parents to stop arguing balls and strikes. Really!

Call your game. Ignore the other stuff.

Fight fire with fire
 

Or you could remind them that they are the ones who stand on the sideline and cheer 'DE-FENSE GET THAT BALL BACK' while their team is on a fast break!

Whoa...maybe we can arrange for my son to meet her?

Next time ignore her. Really. There's just no way a grown man looks good berating a teenaged girl in a cheerleader outfit.

It's kinda funny when you think about it. It's like, "I'm gonna tell the principal on you!" :D

I think you answered your own question. I made this mistake, too, with a fan. I plan to never make it again.

Well I'm going to disagree about Ignoreing this situation.
Go to the table and ask to have someone to get the game admin. Have them tell the game admin. to inform the cheerleaders not to commit about the officiating. Do not stop the game to address this situation. Do it at TO's or at half time.

Why?

Who cares what a cheerleader says?

If it's profantiy or vulgairty, that's different. But "That was all ball!"

No way.

The cheerleaders are under the same guidelines as the table personnel. Are you going to allow the table personnel to say this to you? If so, where do you draw the line? I'm not going to guess at where to draw the line. If you take care of business the way I said, no one knows there is a problem and you have nipped it in a bud.

That's the best advice I've gotten Bart. Thanks. I knew I was screwing up when I started toward the other end of the court...but I was kinda pissed!!! :)

I'll know better next time!

Say what? :confused:

The table personnel are officials designated by the referee per RULE.

Cheerleaders are supporters of their team. They fall under 2-8-1. They ARE NOT part of the officiating crew and they ARE NOT subject to the same rules as the table officials.

Once again, this is no different than a fan making such a comment. There is NO distinction between cheerleaders and fans in the NFHS Basketball Rule Book.

I have no problem with speaking indiscreetly to game management about a true "problem" during a game. But going to game management because some 16 y/o girl yelled "That's all ball!" at me does not qualify as a problem.

I'm thankful I've moved past that stage. I'm sure BK has to. We can all get pissed from time to time on the floor but we learn a lesson from it if we're smart.

I don't need a rule book to tell me cheerleaders can't make commits about my officiating. And I never said it was in the rule book. As far as I'm concerned, If the cheerleaders want to stand on the floor next to me, they are required to conduct themselves properly according to MY standards. I'm glad you have move past this stage. Maybe some day I will be as good as you. But, for now I will not allow this from cheerleaders.

No need to get offended. I meant to add that your way of handling a problem situation is right on target. But there's no need for it in this particular situation. Again, a cheerleader yelling "That was all ball!" is about as minor as anything you're gonna hear.

But you're absolutely wrong about cheerleaders being the same as table officials. You stated they're "under the same guidelines..." That implies rule book. You can ignore the rule book if you like but your statement has no standing.

Now, back to the game. :)

If the worst thing I get from the fans, cheerleaders, peanut vendors, and ticket-takers at my games are "that was all ball", I'll take it.

The only reason the cheerleaders are allowed on the court is because they are "cheer"-leaders. Those are the guidelines they are under. Hecklers are not allowed on the floor. Are you saying you treat them the same as fans in the stands?

Keep focus
 

The longer I ref, the more I am able to focus on the job at hand. I don't notice the fans as much as I used to. I don't notice the cheerleaders (unless they are hot). I certainly am not tuning in to what they are saying, and if I hear it, I laugh it off. Consider the source! Focus on the game! You don't owe them a response, explanation, or anything. Besides, saying 'that was all ball' is not heckling. Heckling is, 'hey ref, did God heighten your other senses to account for your blindness?"

Yes, I am.

#1 - The cheerleaders are in the stands like the fans in my area.

#2 - I could care less what they say as long as they aren't vulgar, profane, or don't come onto the floor during live ball situations. Most are very well behaved with the exception of the occassional "That was all ball!", which I couldn't care less about.

Re: Keep focus
 

Good one!! :D

I'd probably have to laugh if I heard that.

This is almost funny. I wonder if you would treat this situation the same if it was a male who claimed "it was all ball". Sometimes the gym is so full that fans have to stand in the same general area as the cheerleaders would. Are you going to force all these people to be quiet and not "heckle" because of where they happen to be standing? You've got to have some kind of power/control issues if you're going to make a big deal out of a cheerleader saying "that was all ball". I can't imagine what you'd do under more tense situations.

Possible solutions.

Cheerleading squads always have a "captain". Speak to her (him?) not to the offender.

Once this year we used the powerful term "warning" in our conversation with the captain regarding the request to Cheer .... not comment.

Worked great.

this is dumb
 

I totally disagree with everyone here. I think that as soon as you heard the comment you should have spun around and pointed directly at her and yelled, "Nuh uh, it was a foul and I saw it!" That would have put her in her place.

We can't put up with such horribly abusive language from cheerleaders. What's next? The kid that sweeps the floor will be making comments about our shoes not being shiny enough! You should have tossed her and assessed a T to the bench of the home team.

We should all write to the federation and ask for jursidiction over the cheerleaders so that we have more control. Yes, apparently we lack control over a specific area.

Come on. If you can ignore parents and student sections, ignore the cheerleader (regardless of where she stands). Maybe you could restrict yourself to only reffing the games at the deaf school. This will minimze the comments that could shake you.

(I'm just having fun.)

My professional opinion is to ignore the comment and get the ball back in play.

Re: this is dumb
 

ROFL thanks for a great laugh on this wonderful Monday.

P.S. The groudhog saw his shadow... 6 more weeks of winter :)

I don't care about the groundhog. I'm in Phoenix, AZ. Good luck to the rest of you; keep your cars on the road.

Cheerleaders are within 5 feet of me on the baseline and as I'm heading out to report, I hear one of them say, "That was all ball!"


I would have turned around and said "and I'm ALL HANDS. What are you doing after the game?"


I try to take a negative and make it a positive. LOL

My advice, learn to ignore what needs to be ignored and focus on what needs to be focused on...

The Hierarchy of Tolerance

Officials take different levels of abuse from different participants in the game. It is not realistic to have a zero tolerance for abuse. It happens and how we deal with it is important to overall game control.

Though each official draws individual boundaries of acceptance, the following "hierarchy of tolerance" shows how much, or little, you should tolerate from a segment of the game. The groups are listed in order from whom the officials should be most tolerant to the group the officials should be least tolerant. Remember, no extreme unsportsmanlike conduct should be tolerated from any group.

1. Fans. Be more tolerant of fans than any other group. They paid their money and (in their mind) have the right to boo the officials. Never talk back to fans. Doing so only heightens their level of abuse. At higher levels of play, tolerate more from fans than you would at lower levels of play. For example, a fan using profanity at a youth game shouldn’t be tolerated. Fans using profanity at a pro football game will be tolerated by the officials because the officials ignore them. If a fan is using profanity or racially offensive terms to an opponent, have the fan removed from the premises immediately. There’s a proper method in doing so.

• Do not say anything to the fan.

• Stop the game and approach the game administrator (sometimes the home head coach if there is not another present). Explain to the game administrator that a particular fan is to be ejected for using improper language.

• Let the game administrator handle the ejection. That’s what a game administrator is for; it’s not your job to notify and escort fans from the premises, except in some youth league situations where a policy may place responsibility for crowd behavior on the officials.

• Delay the game until the problem is rectified and consider sending teams to their benches during the interruption.

Have game administrators remove fans who throw objects on the floor. Consider a warning first (from the game administrator), then ejection. At higher levels of play, it has almost become trendy for fans to throw coins and small objects on the floor. If something is thrown on the floor, stop the game and have the game administrator issue the warning. If thrown directly at an official or an opponent, have the game administrator eject the offender immediately. If the offender can’t be found in the crowd, consider removing the fans from the section that objects came from. Though you’ll be most tolerant with fans, take a "no tolerance" stance when it comes to players’ or officials’ safety.

2. Head coaches. Because of the nature of their job, a few are going to create conflict for officials. Use preventive officiating whenever you can and tolerate a bit more from them than you would other participants. Work with them on their behavior until their behavior becomes a distraction.

3. Starting players. It’s true that people come to games for the most part to see the players play. While that doesn’t give a player free reign to abuse officials, it does mean officials should do whatever they can with preventive officiating to keep them in the game. If all else fails, penalize. Starting players get a bit more leeway than reserves.

4. Assistant coaches. This group gets some leeway when they are complaining, but not much. Try to use assistants as a control mechanism to help with players, the head coach and others. Assistant coaches should be coaching, not officiating.

5. Bench personnel. Other people on the bench (reserve players, trainers, team managers, etc.) receive minimal tolerance. They have a job to do (root for their team, take care of players, etc.) and it does not include commenting on the officiating. When it happens, go directly to the head coach and tell the coach about the problem. More often than not, the coach will fully support you because the last thing the coach wants is a penalty because of other bench personnel.

6. Scorer’s table personnel. Often, scorers and timers are from the home school. Some can get caught up being a fan and create problems for officials. Remind them before the game that they are an important part of the officiating team and neutrality is important. Most of the time you won’t have problems.

However, when a person at the scorer’s table makes unnecessary comments or improper gestures, take care of it immediately. You’ve got two choices: Deal with the offender directly or ask the game administrator to deal with it. If you’ve got a good game administrator, go that route. If you deal with it on your own, remind the offender that he is a part of the officiating team and that being a fan while in that role is inappropriate.

If improper conduct (cheerleading, ridiculing opponents, or barbs aimed at you) continues, have the game administrator remove the offender immediately. Your job is tough enough; you don’t have to tolerate unsportsmanlike behavior from administrative personnel too.

7. Cheerleaders/mascots. Deal with them this way: As close to zero tolerance as you can get. At more competitive levels, cheerleaders (male and female) may be more vocal about the officiating. Their job of firing up the crowd should not include berating officials. Again, use the game administrator and consider one warning. A second offense: Have them removed. The game needs players, coaches and officials a lot more than it needs mouthy cheerleaders.

Huh? Are you serious? Out of curiosity, where did you come up with this list? Is it something you created for yourself or was it published somewhere? I think it's kind of odd, but the part about the starting players getting more respect than the reserves - you really lost me there.

Hmmm...I could have sworn that your first reply was professional opinion. ;)

1) If we all have individual boundaries of acceptance(which is true,btw), why do we all have to follow <b>your</b> boundaries of acceptance? :confused:

2) You gotta be kidding. Give any player an unfair advantage over another player? Not freakin' likely!!

Jurassic, Have you ever heard the trem, "...keep the starters in the game...". Starters=better play. Subs come in and want to change the game, usually not for the better.

Wow.

Three pages about cheerleaders?


They're CHEERLEADERS for crying out loud! Ignore them, and play on!

Bart, I've heard that many times. I also disagreed with it every single time that I heard it. An official's job is to be fair, consistent, and also call the game equally for both teams. If you're favoring any player out there, you sure aren't being fair or consistent, and you can't ever guarantee that you're calling the game equally for both teams. Heck, that's even a complaint in the NBA now, where the stars definitely do get favored.I hear officials harp constantly on advantage/disadvantage, and then in the next breath come up with a theory like this, which is the complete antithesis of advantage/disadvantage.

If any of the players want to change the game, that's completely up to the players. We're just supposed to <b>react</b> to what's going on out there, not <b>act</b> to influence what's going on.

Totally agree with JR.--Besides, once the game starts I can't even remember which players started. (except for the captains and maybe one or two more)

Scenario: Team A only has 5 decent players and coach rarely uses his bench, Team B has a balanced team and subs regularly. Your philosophy is not going to make for a fair game

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Quote:

If you're favoring any player out there, you sure aren't being fair or consistent, and you can't ever guarantee that you're calling the game equally for both teams. Heck, that's even a complaint in the NBA now, where the stars definitely do get favored.

Yeah, ask Shaq about that one :D

And Vince Carter - I'm sorry, but that was brutal.

The question is,

Was it all ball and you were mad at yourself for kicking the call, so you took it out on the poor girl. Then she showed you up and it pissed you off even more?????

I can not take credit for that post I came across it from the NASO site..

just thought i would repost it.

Thanks for the vote of confidence fellas! I didn't ask for a psychological evaluation, I asked how to handle it with administration in a more efficient way. If a cheerleader got mouthy with me again, I'd still take care of her, but I'd do it more efficiently and with less flare!!! I'm certainly not on a power trip, but my job is hard enough without some 16 year old sassing me about something she has no clue about! Hope those who second guessed me feel better about themselves!!!

Hold the phone there, BK.

You posted - expect replies. Expect people to not agree with you. Expect some to back you 100%. That's why we're all here.

Bottom line (for me, anyway), is you let a glorified "fan" de-rail your focus. "That was all ball" does not, in my mind, fall under our list of things that are over the line. We absorb lots of "sass" from lots of "people who have no clue" all the time: players, coaches, fans, parents, whoever. We ignore them, and we soldier on, confident that, yes, they have no clue - and we do.

Thicken up that skin, baby.

If you haven't guessed by now, this is the wrong place to come if all you're looking for is navel-gazers to pat you on the back, telling you how right you are all the time.

Im the new guy
 

Ok, fellas Im the new guy on the block. I have been reading this board for about 2 months now and finaly decided to start posting. ( heh on a thread about cheerleaders none the less ) I am 38 years old, I have been officiating baseball for about 10 years, just started officiating basketball this year.

Now on to the topic at hand. If I remeber correctly from our last association meeting this topic was brought up. Now the way in which the situation was presented it does not seem to be that serious. But then again generally when something is written it does not explain the situation completely like it was.

Anyway, we were told that cheerleaders and pep bands for example are all considered representatives of the school. with that being said these people should not be tretaed like fans and they should adhear to bench rules. So in my mind i am thinking that if this is a situation where you would give a player on the bench who made the same remarks a warning, the cheerleader should also have been given a warning.

I do not believe that you should have stopped the game. I would have waited for a dead ball or a time out. Went over to the table and asked someone to go explain the situation to the administrator and ask the administrator to go talk to the cheerleader.

Well, like i say i am the new guy, but that is my thinking on the situation.

Dont be to bruttle on me.... LOL

See, here's how it works big guy: you say this...

Quote:

I'm open to suggestions!

...and you should expect suggestions. If you're not open to suggestions then say so right up front.

Ya know, the game bird /water fowl hunters around these parts have a saying, "The feathers only fly where the pellets hit."

Maybe the cheerleader saw it right ...maybe it WAS all ball!

Fellas,
This thread has had me just chuckling!

BK is a really, really BIG GUY, and I can only imagine how that entire scenario looked from the stands.

In a few years BK will have a daughter about that age,... oooh, Boy! (...the thought just makes me smile/cry/laugh/die.)

Hang in there, Big Guy. :)

mick (Used to be a parent of a teenage daughter, but I quit.)

But you're not on a power trip. Right...

Smitty,
For sure, BK doesn't have to go on any power trips. He merely needs to step on the floor. ;)
mick

Evidently the cheerleader was neither impressed nor intimidated by BK's presence, Mick. Perhaps that's why he responded in the way he did with her? Obviously you know the guy and I don't, but it sure seems like he wasn't going to let any 16 year old girl show him up, cheerleader or not. That's something he needs to get over.

Here's my .02 worth. Bart, cheerleaders I would classify as bench personnel. In most of my games they are positioned on the endline. I've almost got kicked in the head a few times, stepped on them several times, and given a loud whistle in their ears alot of times! If a kid on the bench says "that was all ball!" I think most of us would choose to ignore this. I have only talked to the cheerleaders "officially" one time. That whas when they were doing a cheer when the opponant had the ball at his disposable for a free throw on the end where they were cheering.
BK if you didn't want to hear any differing opinions, you shouldn't have posted. No one likes to get negative comments, but you probably should have bitten down on your fox 40 and ignored this comment. A loud blast later in their direction wouldn't be out of line. I kind of compare what you did with what happened at the last game I was a spectator at. A travel was called on a girl in the B squad game. She turned toward where she had to go back on defense and without looking bounced the ball backwards. I didn't think it was particularly hard its just that the endline in that gym was about 100' deep and someone had to go chase down the ball. The player got to her end and took a defensive position. The official chased the girl down and talked to her. I didn't look very professional.
Like someone said, any chance you can not to draw attention on yourself is good advice.

Since time began.
 

Smitty,
Since the beginning of time Boys-to-Men have been caught off guard by teenage girls, as suitor, brother, father.

They say the dangedest things! And forever, the male species will have only half a poor chance to react perfectly. ;)

mick

Footlocker...I'm in Phoenix, also. Sure is tough having to play golf when the temprature drops below 60!

Shoot me an email, wouldya?

Sometimes our emotions do get the best of us, and to say it has'nt happened to all of us would probably be a lie!

Next time turn to her and say "and that was a BAD cheer"
so we both must suck!

A disposable?

Is that some newfangled equipment I don't know about? :p

Guess what
 

I saw the play from here myself, and you know what? It WAS all ball!

You're beginning to sound like "that other Mark". Is he rubbing off on you? :D

Re: Guess what
 

I think what bugged BK the most. She was right! :D

Just yankin' yer chain there, BK. ;)

The cheerleaders are disposable. So is this official! I'm getting to the age where my hands don't always do what my brain tell it to!

Big Joe,
That's the result of too much perch jerkin' without choppers.
mick

Thats funny. :)

Wha......?

http://www.stjoan.com/confused.gif