Illinois vs Wisconsin on Saturday. Illinois player went to dunk and was fouled in the act of shooting. The dunk missed and bounced in the air. Meanwhile the dunker was hanging on the rim to protect himself. The ball came down through the basket. The basket was ruled good and one free throw was awarded. Wisconsin questioned the ruling as it seemed quite obvious he was hanging on the rim when the ball went through The officials called both coaches over to explain the situation. Of course the announcers were no help, they wondered why it was not goaltending. Is this basket interference? I am not familiar with NCAA rules. Are they different than FED?



[Edited by RoyalsCoach on Jan 26th, 2004 at 12:06 PM]

As described, this should have been BI -- cancel the basket and award two throws.

Ball hit back of rim and went up, came down dead center through the basket. Rim being pulled down had no effect whatsoever on the goal. Does that matter? I would understand that if it was an intentional act no goal but since the reason that he was hanging there was because he was fouled from behind and was legally protecting himself I would think no BI.

No matter why he's hangin' out, it's BI.

"No matter why he's hangin' out, it's BI."

I'm just playing devil's advocate here, I really don't know. It was clear that his hanging on the rim had no effect at all on the ball going in and he was legally hanging on the rim in response to an opponants act. When you rule BI are you not ruling in favor of the team that caused the player to be hanging on the rim in the first place, ie the offending team? I just do softball now but ASA has a rule that no rule shall be interpreted to give the advantage to the offending team. Does NCAA or Fed have a similar rule?

We don't have the option of setting aside the rule. The rule doesn't say that the player can hang on the rim and not be called for BI if there's someone under him. It simply says he can hang to avoid injury.

9-11-1
A player shall not commit basket interference. Basket interference occurs when a player:
Touches the ball or basket, (including the net), when the ball is on or within either basket.

Based on the rule, this is BI.

See, ya learn something new every day.

BYU vs. NM
 

Saw Basket Interference call made Monday late evening during the Brigham Young vs New Mexico game.

Call was made by the lead which I thought was rather unusual... (shouldn't be looking up to the basket, should he?)

From his position it was a good call. But... upon slo-mo replay you see that there were two BIs and that the one which got called would not have happened if the first BI hadn't occurred.

I forget how NM's shot got to the rim (lay-up or outside shot) but the ball was in the cylinder above the rim. As it is going down into the basket NM crashes the board for the potential rebound. BYU's big guy (something starting with an A) slaps from below the ring and through the net, hits the ball (it appears the ball was going to go through the basket). The ball is still partially in the cylinder but now fully above the ring when it hits NM's hands that are straight up and slightly outside the cylinder. Lead calls BI on NM (Garner or something); no points; BYU ball.

The BYU interference ocurred on the side of the basket away from the lead official and the NM interference was on the same side as the Lead so it was easy for him to see. The funny part is that NM would not have interfered if not for BYU's interference knocking the ball out of the basket.

I'm not sure BYU's interference could have been recognized without slo-mo replay - the ball was about 1/4 of the way into the basket and it could have been interpretted to have hit the rim and bounced out... into NM's upright hand. Perhaps that is why none of the outside officials called anything.

As the level of play increases the decisions need to be sharper. :)

Slow mo1
 

There is a lot of difference between slow mo and the real life experience. I just hate it when announcers use slow mo and after the fact to criticize a real time official. It stinks!

Re: BYU vs. NM
 

I have no idea what you're trying to say here.

Hey other BktBallRef, correct me if I am wrong here. (I'm sure you would anyway.)

By rule 4-16 he was dunking "Dunking or stuffing is the driving, forcing, pushing or attempting to force a ball through the basket with the hands"

Rule 9-11 (basket interference) has an exception. "Dunking or stuffing is legeal and is not basket interference"

Now, I have rules to back up the call. No BI. The player gets the call and bucket he deserves and no rules were ignored or set aside.

Furthermore, as far as the rule 9-11 is concerned, The player violated
Art 1. "player touches the ball or basket" but as part of a dunk attempt. =no BI
Articles 2, 3, & 4 were not violated in teh given scenario.

No BI. Correct me if I am wrong.

When does a dunk end? Does a dunk end when it's clear the ball doesn't go in during the attempted dunk, as in the case with the original post "The dunk missed and bounced in the air." or does the dunk end when the player lets go of the rim? I think an argument can be made either way, but I would initally lean toward the dunk ending as soon as it didn't immediately enter the basket and bounced up.

You're wrong.

You're quoting NFHS rules, so take a look at casebook play 10.3.4SitB(a). It's exactly the same as the initial post on this thread.It says if the player's hanging on the rim to avoid injury,and the ball is in the basket or on the ring, it's basket interference.Also, take a look at casebook play 9.11.1SitB. That one says that, if the play is the same, but the player is <b>not</b> hanging on the rim for safety purposes, it's <b>still</b> basket interference and it's <b>also</b> a T.



[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Jan 28th, 2004 at 03:07 PM]

Is the case book on line?

nice
 

While I appreciate your being blunt, your logic fails. I am sticking with NF rules here.

It is a stretch to say that casebook play 10.3.4SitB(a) is "exactly the same as the initial post on this thread".

The initial thread states that this is a dunk attempt. I'll quote, "A1 jumps for a try near the basket but loses his/her balance after releasing the ball. A1 grasps the basket to prevent injury. The ball: (a) is in the basket or on the ring while A1 is hanging on the ring."

The aforementioned situation is not a generic "try." By definition it is a dunk. And in the casebook example he grasps the ring following the try. In the exaple here, he is grasping the ring as part of a dunk or stuff. And--"Dunking or stuffing is legeal and is not basket interference" I don't believe that the spirit of the rule is ignored when the initial part of the dunk fails.

If you use your logic then you open a new problem- How are we going to decide when a dunk is successful? If it is not perfectly clean, should we call BI everytime? Please.

I don't mind being wrong. I have been wrong before. I would like to feel better about your arguement before I decide that it was done wrong here and before I need to face this decision in a HS game.

the quote is from the casebook example -10.3.4SitB(a)

Hey - where's that quote from again? I can't seem to find it anywhere...

This damn site keeps returning server errors and posts the thread anyway.

If you punch "edit/delete" under your posts, you can delete all of your duplicate posts.

Re: nice
 

The dunking/stuffing reference gives a pass, so to speak, for BI of the hand-on-the-ball-while-in-the-cylinder type. Therefore, grasping the rim is not protected.


To look at this from another angle, let's assume that the dunk doesn't end when the ball bounces up off the rim (it does, IMO). In this case, the grabbing of the rim has nothing to do with the dunk. The majority of dunks are made without significant rim grabbing/touching. Since the grabbing of the rim is unrelated to the dunk, the grabbing is what we penalize as BI.

I'm afraid that you're incorrect. The the definition of dunking. When the ball doesn't go through the basket but itinstead, goes up in the air, it's no longer a dunk and A1 can no longer touch the ball or the ring and basket after the ball enters the basket.

Consider this play:

A1 attemtps to dunk the ball and is fouled in the act of shooting. The dunk misses and bounces in the air within the imaginary cyliner. Meanwhile, A1 is hanging on the rim to protect himself. While hanging by one hand, he slams the ball home with his other hand. Is this BI?



BTW, I sincerely wish you would consider changing your username. It would certainly make it less confusing. You've only just arrived and it would be very easy to change your name to something more unique. I would appreciate it.

Re: Re: BYU vs. NM
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dan_ref

Quote:

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown Saw Basket Interference call made Monday late evening during the Brigham Young vs New Mexico game. I have no idea what you're trying to say here.

Dan, I'm saying two things
#1 the Lead doesn't usually call basket interference. It is usually called by the Trail or Center.

#2 On a single shot attempt during this game there were two instances of basket interference. The first by the defense (dead ball, count the basket) which caused a second BI by the offense (dead ball, don't count the basket).

The lead official saw and enforced the second BI (no basket).

_________________

as for the dunking issue,

perhaps people would like to check rule 9-11 Exception:
"If a player has his/her (PC:)) hand legally in contact with the ball, it is not a violation if such contact with the ball continues after it enters a basket cylinder or if in such action, the player touches the basket. Dunking or stuffing is legal and is not basket interference."

Change your name
 

What's wrong with Bisket and Bucket?
;)

Re: Re: Re: BYU vs. NM
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref Quote: Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown Saw Basket Interference call made Monday late evening during the Brigham Young vs New Mexico game. I have no idea what you're trying to say here. Dan, I'm saying two things #1 the Lead doesn't usually call basket interference. It is usually called by the Trail or Center. #2 On a single shot attempt during this game there were two instances of basket interference. The first by the defense (dead ball, count the basket) which caused a second BI by the offense (dead ball, don't count the basket). The lead official saw and enforced the second BI (no basket).

OK, I take it back. I did have some idea, and that idea was everything you just said here. :)

What was the play that resulted in 2 BIs? Go slowly, I'm not as smart as I look. ;)

as for the dunking issue,

perhaps people would like to check rule 9-11 Exception:
"If a player has his/her (PC:)) hand legally in contact with the ball, it is not a violation if such contact with the ball continues after it enters a basket cylinder or if in such action, the player touches the basket. Dunking or stuffing is legal and is not basket interference."

[/B][/QUOTE]Tony, l'il bbref mentioned that cite about 6 hours ago. Not applicable on a missed dunk. If it was applicable, then case book play 10.3.4SitB(a) wouldn't exist because it's completely contradictory to what you people are trying to read into that exception.The language in that case book play couldn't be clearer.

Re: Re: Re: BYU vs. NM
 

But there's no rule that allows him to lose contact of the ball and then touch it once again within the cylinder, ring or basket. Read what you posted. In this play, "contact with the ball" does NOT continue. He loses contact and then touches the ball again.

Given your interpretation, A1 could attempt to dunk, have the ball bounce high into the air, return to the floor, and then go back up and jam the ball as it sat on the rim.

Just like the original post, and my previous example, all three are BI.

Re: Re: nice
 

Mark - I had this situation last summer, before the new casebook interpretation came out, and I ruled, rightly I thinkat the time, since there was no case law, that it was not BI. I followed the play and interpreted it on the spot. A missed shot. A player leaps for the rebound, grabs it, attempts to dunk it. The ball is rejected by the cylinder, bounces straight up high over the basket. The dunker grabs the rim to stop his own momentum, and, in traffic, looks down to be sure there's a place to come down, before releasing the rim. While he's doing that, the ball falls through the basket.

I don't think you can penalize any rim-grabber who is 'legitimately' concerned for his own or another player's safety.

Tony - I would agree with your further example . . .
 

last post
 

Hey BktBallRef,

Due to your tactful post and civil request I will have no problem changing my handle here. This will be my last post with this username. The confusion and coincidence was totally unintentional. Please accept my apologies and I will from this point be 'footlocker'.

(I'm not an official because of my creativity)

And for the record, I am convinced. I will make the call BI when and if this situation arises. Thanks

first post
 

It appears that everything is working fine.:D