You try to do what it takes to get the upper level games. You read and read the rules, you know them forwards and backwards, go to camps, you work in front of the mirror to practice your mech. You ask other officials to give you feed back. People in this forum talk about how important appearance is. Beltless pants, high gloss shoes, no facial hair, etc. Then can someone tell me why over weight officials are getting the varsity games.

Last Night I went to watch a local high school basketball tournament. Championship game. The three officials must of had a combined weight of 750lbs or more. Their guts hung way over their pants and their shirts were stretched way past the limit the manufacture ever intended the fabric to withstand. These guys were slow, out of breath, sweating like 3 stuffed pigs. They must be great officials.

What does their scheduler weigh?

Appearance is important for making a first impression.

These guys have made their first impression.

Advice: Don't be so bitter. Too soon, you'll be the "old guy" out on the court and some young whippersnapper will be wondering why you're working and s/he isn't.

3 stuffed pigs
 

They have experiences that let them overcome their weakness but I do agree that if you can't keep up you will not have the angle and physical fatigue leads to mental fatigue and this leads to poor judgement. It is a reflection of our society as a whole. Believe in yourself because appearance and contioning is an important part of a professional look and it is helping your officiating more than you think. There will be a time when their conditioning will hurt their officiating to the point that it will affect their ability to work and be effective and for you justice will be served.

I saw a guy this Christmas break who wasn't particularly fat, but he WAS slow, and extremely out of shape. But I know for a fact he got the game because he was requested by name. I also got a great game in that tourney by being requested by name. I choose to look at the really high caliber refs, and think of myself as being in their category, rather than at that one guy. In this field, politics do count, and that's just the way it is.

People in this forum talk about how important appearance is.

People on this forum also talk about experience(s) and those fat guys may have a lot of them. There is no substitute for experience. When your assignor thinks that you are both ready and a better selection than the overweight guys, I am sure that he/she will let you know. In the meantime, continue to do all the things that you previously listed.

Mulk

We have a few officials in our association that are overweight. Some of them have fallen far in the rankings because they can no longer keep up and/or call a good game. Some of them still call a great game and are able to be where they are supposed to be on the floor so they are still rated where they get some big games. Apparently, your assignor feels that they fall into the latter group.

Instead of worrying about the games they get, keep trying to figure out what it is in your game that is preventing you from being assigned to that game.

Z

Couldn't have said it better, Z-- and I'm an assigner.

zebraman,

I am not worring about the fat guys, I have my share of top varsity games. I was posting a fact. I come in here to read about how to get ahead. I hear how apperance is important, how you dress, and being in good physical shape, and how you conduct yourself on the floor. The three guys I was refering to are doing none of the above, and yet they are doing games they have no business doing. I don't care if they could read the rule book word for word. They were fat, out of shape and having a hard time keeping up with the pace of the game. If I do or new officials do what they are supposed to do to get ahead like the above mentioned and then see what I seen on the floor, then you have to wonder why they are getting games of that level.

Clay,

Having not seen the three officials that you are talking about myself, I can only conjecture. I would say that your assignor does not share your opinion that the three officials have no business doing that game. Is there no rating systems in your area that has a hand in determining who gets which games? Or is it strictly up to the assignor. There are always problems (perceived or real) when one person (I.E. assignor) has all the power to assign.

Like someone else already said, appearance is extremely important in making that first impression. Then you gain a reputation over time based on how you call the games. I can only surmise that these three officials have gained a reputation over the years as being good officials. I think a professional appearance is extremely important and it bothers me when my partner doesn't look like an athlete. That being said, I'd rather have a competent chubby partner than a questionable partner who can run like Carl Lewis.

If these three are getting to the point that they can no longer keep up, it will catch up with them and they'll stop getting games.

Z

Weight is just like anything else.
 

You would have to ask your assignor or the person that assigns that conference. It is not that common to see guys that are slow and fat around me. Not so much because they assignors, the coaches do not want them. The assignors ultimately work for the schools and the conferences, so they tend to put individuals that are more athletic looking. I have known guys to be told, "you must lose 10-15 pounds."

Just like anything there is no one factor that can make or break you as an official. You could wear belted pants and still work, you must might not be working as much or get the same respect. Weight is no different. But I would not worry about it. Your time will come.

Peace

Clay -- Been thinking about this today, and I think I have found a way for you to get an answer to your question. You go to a game that one of these guys is doing. You watch, you try to see what they are doing right. Then you talk to your assignor about it, using these exact words: "What do I need to do to be as great as they are?" This will get at the thing you want to discover -- not why the heck they get the good games, but what you can do to get to their level. Of course, when the assignor answers, you listen carefully, take notes, nod your head, and don't argue. Then go work your butt off, doing what you were told. You'll have gotten the attention of your assignor, and then all you have to do is earn his respect.

I don't think that physical size has any bearing on your officiating quality. I'm not the thinnest person, but i can run up and down the court. I just get slow after 4 or 5 games ;). As long as you're running up and down the court, and not looking like you're about to die, physical size shouldn't matter. Why would honigs make pants for someone with a 52" waist if physical size determines your ability to ref.

Just remember those guy's have called the best game they can get. If they go to camp and try to get a college schedule, they'll be laughed out of the building. They want guys with an athletic appearance. In the meantime. others here are right. Experience is what got them that game that night. Not their weight. You'll get your chance.

You got that right.

The one thing as a young official that make me laugh is the constant bemoaning of the role that politics plays in getting assignments. Sure, politics may play a role, but it's the easiest out, the equivalent of saying, "I don't play because my coach doesn't like me." People who tend to dwell on politics seem to focus more on things out of their control, rather than things that are in their control, like improving their game (including appearance and conditioning). If you feel like you're being stiffed by an assignor, all you can do is improve to the point where he has no choice but to use you or to a point where you can move on to bigger and better things. One thing I know about assignors is that they can't continually send bad officials to games out of personal loyalty because then the schools and leagues will complain about the officiating and soon the assignor will be out of a job. The assignor has a vested interest in providing good officials and his reputation is on the line.

In terms of the weight thing, I think it's a very big deal. People who aren't in shape have less credibility automatically and cannot possibly call their best possible game because their bodies won't allow them to, just like an overweight athlete is not in his best shape to compete. More and more officials are like athletes and they should get in, and stay in good shape.

It is not always politics.
 

Here is what translation of when someone claim politics means. "I am too lazy to do the things to get ahead, so I will just complain I cannot get ahead." In my area to get ahead, you have to attend camps. Unless you have established yourself as an official that always goes far in the playoffs, you have to attend camps on a regular basis. Our state requires officials to attend a licensed camp with the IHSA every 3 years, or possibly lose your license. Well we have two kind of camps. One is what is called a 4 hour camp. All that is just a classroom camp. No floor work. But it fulfills the requirement from the state and you can keep your license by attending this camp. The other is a 6 hour camp, both classroom and floor work. The 6 hour camps are what assignors use to hire new officials and helps you keep your place in the conference in some cases. Well guys will not attend any camps and will not attend association meetings, but complain all day that it is "politics" that is holding them back. There are many socials in the area that officials can attend that are held by different groups as just a get together. Many officials do not attend those and what do they do, complain it is politics. Many of the guys that attend these things are assignors and other prominatate individuals that would make good sense to just meet. What do many do, stay at home. Even a great way to learn officiating is to watch other veteran officials work their games. One way is if you are doing the Sophomore or JV game before the varsity, then stick around and watch the varsity. What do many guys do, go home and watch nothing. I used to always watch the veterans work. Not only did I want to see what it took to be there, I wanted to see what I could learn and what I needed to do to get better. I am not going to say I am the best official, but I am there for a reason. My partners are there for a reason. Why not watch officials that have accomplished some things to get better? But no, it is the assignor does not like me. Or the "old boy's club" is at work. I might agree that the "fat officials" are not the first choice anymore. But they might have years of experience. They might have more respect than the rookie that is slim as to their ability. It might be expected to what they are going to get from those officials. Rookies, you might not know how many mistakes they will make. And the vets might have done several playoff games and even a state final or two in their career. Yes, they might be on their downward spiral, but they are better for the game they are doing than someone who has not proven themselves yet.

You have to put in some work. It does not just fall in your lap without some work. And it helps if you have the right people pulling for you as well. But you never get to meet those people sitting at home and just working your game and going home. There is a reason lawyers and doctors and business people play golf. It is not just to play a game, it is to make deals and contacts as well.

Peace

I've been lucky enough to go to Mickey Crowley's camp. He's funny and great to talk to. Before I went to his camp, he spoke at my association's annual banquet. In the course of his comments, he patted his midriff and said, "Gentlemen, you are looking at the last of the fat referees!" We laughed, but he was totally serious. Tim is right, athleticism is in demand at higher levels.

This original post cracks me up.

It is too darned easy to look at someone and decide right away that they shouldn't work a game because they are "fat." BTW, I'm just quoting the word fat like the original author.

Why don't you give me some specifics about their officiating that tells me why they aren't able to work that level game? What makes you better than them?

There is so much that goes into making a good basketball official and all you're telling me is that these guys are fat. I've heard some people say that officials are fat when they are simply not as rail thin as they are. These "fat" officials probably wear size 34 pants at most, BTW.

Rich

Rich,

Did this thread hit your hot button. I stated in the thread why I thought the 3 "fat officials" should not be doing a game of that caliber. The bottom line is they "sucked" and their weight keep them from doing a job that was very important to all who were involved. They failed the kids, coaches, and spectators.

That's a little overdramatic, isn't it? Was the game a complete farce because of the refs? When you use a phrase like this it makes it sound like you're more bitter than anything.

Smitty,


You have kid's and coaches busting their butt's at practice 5-6 times a week. Parents getting kid's back and forth to practice, kids doing homework on the bus to keep grades up so they can play ball. As officials, some lose track of what it takes to play sports. With all the people, time and energy involved in putting a team on a playing field the participants derserve better than the three "fat officials"
I seen doing a varsity level game and not giving to the kids, parents,coaches what they had invested in getting to that championship game. I blame the assignor and the officials for not knowing when it is time to hang it up.

Clay bitter? Let's see... earlier this week he posted how he told his assignor to "shove a game up his ***" because the assignor wanted him to fill in on a varsity game that he hadn't originally been assigned. Now he criticizes all three refs in a game he watches (and obviously thinks that he should have been reffing) because they all sucked. Bitter might not be a strong enough word. "The world owes me a living....."

Z

Zebraman,

Am I bitter, no I just get tired of hearing you guys in hear talk about what you have to do to get ahead. And then I go to some games to get first hand knowledge and learn from the officials on the floor. I get to the game and see 3 "fat Officials" that had no business doing a game at that level.

I am not bitter, but Iam tired of listening to alot of you talk out of both sides of you mouth.

Attitude
 

I don't really know you CLAY other than from what you've posted here so I can only speculate what your agenda is. From the sound of your original post, although these guys are "fat", because you also describe them as huffing and puffing, I assume they did run up and down the court and make a few calls and keep the game under control. Whether they "sucked" because of their appearance or their judgement in making their calls, that's a subjective opinion and you are certainly entitled to yours. However, as much as an official's outward appearance is a key factor in judging their abilities, there are so many more factors to consider. Just as key are an official's attitude, demeanor, experience and how they react to adverse and unusual situations. None of us knows how these factors applied to the officials you describe. I'm speculating that these guys have a significant amount of experience dealing with all kinds of situations beyond the basic rules, and perhaps that's why they got the championship game - mainly for their abilities in areas that are not so easily noticed on the outside.

Maybe you are only listening to the "side of the mouth" that you want to hear. I agree that being in shape is important. My first impression of an overweight partner is not a good one. However, there are many, many other things that are important like game management, call selection, coach/referee interaction, mechanics, positioning, communication... etc. Do I need to go on? I had a game with a partner Wednesday night who was a little bit overweight. However, he was a great partner who covered the floor well and we had a great game. His strengths made him able to overcome the challenge of carrying an extra bag of groceries up and down the court with him.

At some point in the past, these three officials that you observed have impressed your assignor with their ability to officiate a game. You are only looking at one piece of the puzzle. If they are as out-of-shape as you say they are, that is a big strike against them. Apparently, their strengths outweigh their "fatness" (at least in the opinion of your assignor).

Did it ever strike you that maybe you have a weakness in your officiating game that is as glaring as the fatness on these three? Assignors are trying to please everyone... most importantly the people who hire and fire them (A.D.'s or a board of directors perhaps). They do that by assigning the officials that they think can do the best job.

Z

I come in here to tell what I seen at a basketball game. What I saw contadicts everything I have read and what I have learned, and I have learned alot in this forum. And yet I made a statement and you think Iam bitter.

After this post, I have learned you want to stroke the large ego's in this forum.

If we are unable to critize ourselves or others to learn from what we see, then we just need to send pleasantries to each other or contuine to blow smoke up each other as*

Maturity
 

Have you learned that it's not always what someone, say a coach, says but how they say it that earns them a T? The same approach applies in all walks of life, Clay. You have to earn respect and clearly by the way you choose to express yourself you aren't getting that concept. Maturity is something that grows over time. It's your choice to allow it to grow or not. Not everything is black and white and your experience and abilities as an official can only be bolstered so far by what you read in a forum like this. The rest is how you carry yourself while applying the concepts you have learned. If you carry yourself on the court the way you have in your posts, I think I can understand why you might not be getting those championship games assigned to you yet.

Smitty,

I have enough of the high level games as my schedule and family will allow. I am not upset about my assignor and what games he gives me. What Iam saying is, you work your butt off to get to this level, clinics, films, working summer leagues to keep in shape etc. I have done what it takes to be a good and respected official. I have paid my dues. What gripes me is the fact I go to game see these 3 "fat officials" out of shape,out of position, etc. and yet they are doing a game they have not business doing and they know it. I have given up alot of family time to be the type of official I have become. I see these guys out there, and Iam thinking while Iam in a gym at 110 degrees in the summer away from my family putting in the time it takes to advance my skill level, these guys are sitting in the back yard having a cookout with their family eating, drinking and more eating and getting fatter and fatter.

I guess all I can say to that is that life isn't fair. If you're doing all that, the torch will pass soon enough. Things have a way of working themselves out - if those guys truly don't belong on the court, I'm sure the word will filter down from the coaches, AD's, parents, etc. to the appropriate people and those guys will retire gracefully. Then the new breed can come in and do the right thing. In the meantime, all we can do is the best we can and keep getting better and be ready when that time comes.

Clay,
You are missing the whole point here! Now if you said they are fat AND wore belted pants then you would have got your point across to everyone! I gather that most who have answered your thread are a little over weight, havent seen this much action sence the belted pants thread on appearance.

Lets put into perspective, if a doctor came in to cut on you and he looked like he just overhauled an engine would you let him? Even though his skills and past abilities are of the greatist. Or a meat cutter who's missing three fingers, he too was once realy good at it.

I think that most here are missing your point Clay, you never said that you wasnt getting v-games they assumed that you wasnt. Your point was not a statement BUT a question as to how do these out of shap, appearance is not important, reff's continue to keep getting the games that are way to fast and now out of there league!

Youre points here are well taken.

Bird's of a feather...
 

Evidently bird's of a feather stick together....

Enough said.

Nope. Wrong assumption.

Z

No smitty,
just not reading more into what CLAY was saying in his first thread! And ferther more, who said I was thin???
Was YOU asuming that too smitty???

I wasn't referring to anyone being "fat" either. In my replies to Clay I was trying to look at the bigger picture and not have blinders on when criticizing anyone's abilities. I was referring to something else when I replied to your post. I guess now would be a good time to ask if anyone could put in a spelling/grammar checker? ;)

smitty,
I'm bigg enouf to admit i ant a good speler or typer so whats your excuse. Are we getting pi$$y becouse you dont like what someone has to say. opinions are like a$$holes, and I too have one.

You just handed me an excellent way to prove my point. Perhaps you aren't the best speller, but are you an outstanding referee? That's all that matters when you're on the court. And that requires a lot more than how you look on the outside.

170 games a season. I think that says it all!
And smitty, you should have been reading some of the other threads months ago on how important "looks" are...pleated pants, shiny shoes so on and so on, so THANK YOU for helping me prove that looks are not everything!

Keep up the positive writing.

Smitty,

Great comment. Since it does not matter what I or you look like on the outside, then Iam going back to the belted pants, (cost less) and facial hair. Just like I looked when I started officiating.

Actually I disagree that the number of games you work says it all. But I've already given my point of view on that. I have read some of the posts on pants and shoes and belts. Personally I found them to be a bit over the top. I think it's very relative, though. It appears different associations around the country put different degrees of significance on clothes and such. I have never shined my shoes - I like the way my Nike's look. I don't wear a belt, but only because I happened to buy the sansabelt style pants. I have never based any assumptions on a fellow official because they wear belted pants - I think that's just silly. But it's all relative - I guess in some places in order to get to a certain level, you have to do things that don't make a lot of sense. I am not looking to get to any particular level - I just love reffing basketball, and I have a blast doing it. I work hard and try to get better every game, and I'll take whatever games are assigned to me. That's what it's about for me. For you, this may seem completely backwards. We're all different.

[Edited by Smitty on Jan 23rd, 2004 at 02:43 PM]

I never said it doesn't matter what you look like on the outside. I said it takes much more than just that to define you as a good referee. Are you always this confrontational? Do you bring this to your games? Out of curiosity, approximately how many T's do you hand out per week?

Okay I am 5'9" and a large framed individual. I would not call myself fat but stocky. That being said I am in good shape and do not have to huff and puff up and down the court. The misconception that was given in the first post is that if an individual does not meet a certain criteria in the weight department they have to be out of shape and can not ref. I have seen skinny guys that are out of shape and huff and puff and can not keep up with the plays. I have also on the other hand, seen really "fat" guys that could keep up with the play and seemed to be in good shape despite their weight. I am more concerned when I know there are officials out there working alot more than I am that totally blow chunks when it comes to judgement and rules knowledge. And he is even a little heavier than I am and has a beard. Come out and chats with cheerleaders, fans, kids around at the score's table before the game. Just totally unprofessional. He will probably have a game tonight. I will sit at home. And humbly I am far better but as long as I focus on what I need to improve and take care of myself my day will come. When it does I will be ready because I have taken the time to prepare and better myself than to sit around and feel sorry for myself because he was working and I was not when in all honesty I could do a better job.

SMITTY,
Dido on the last thread. Hard to believe we are on the same page on that one. You talk to someone long enough and you will get down to the nuts and bolts of who they really are! As far as 170 games, experience brings knowledge.

CLAY....

I agree wholeheartedly that officials who are physically unable to fulfill the role should not be there. But I think if you post some specifics about why these three officials "sucked", and some examples of how their "huffing and puffing" kept them from making good calls, people here will be more willing to accept your arguments. I know I will.

All I see so far is bad, bad attitude vibes.

Change my mind.

Smitty,

And I feel the way you do about the belted or beltless pants. Same goes for the level of a game, I will take any level. Like I have always said, "no matter what the age they all think their game is just as important as a varsity game" They deserve the same level of officiating.

Just like today I get a call to fill in for a Varsity game saturday night. I have booked last year a 6th grade boys. Do I drop the 6th grade game to take the varsity game? Not on your life. I made a commitment last year when I booked this game and it would not be fair to the grade school in which i committed.

Smitty,

Just like to make a point, no hard feelings here. This subject just so happens to be a hot button of mine.
And as far as the "T" question. I have given out 1 and that was to a player for show poor sportmanship.

Beleive it or not Smitty my goal at the begining of the season is not to give any.

canuckrefguy,

Maybe I came across to harsh in explaining what I witnessed. Next time I'll show a video!!!!!!!!!!!

Well then perhaps I judged you unfairly. Ironic, isn't it? How we judge people on one specific nit that may or not be a fair interpretation of that person's skills? I think I understand your original point a lot better now than when I started responding to this thread. I simply agree with canuckrefguy in that the way you delivered the message. I think giving specific examples of what they did improperly would have driven your point home a lot better than making a generic statement that they "sucked" because they are "fat" and were breathing heavy.

My eyes are hurting, we've went from "fat" to "T's" in 4 pages!

Smitty,


Just to let you know. Rainmaker says I come across to stong also. I think it just my demeanor.

Got to go I have a game tonight......................

I resemble that remark.

MTD, Sr.

Clay, have you ever stopped and given yourself a personal evaluation? There must be some reasons that ur not getting the higher games... the way you talk to coaches, handle yourself on the court... I was told the other day that my on court presence, demeanour, how i handle coaches and players has changed soo much since I ditched the lanyards. It makes me slow down and think more and I tell ya what, my over all officiating has gotten better too....

So maybe instead of asking why they get games and such - find out what you need to work on to get there.

The great official part, or the rest?

I had a real runner of a 3-man game tonight. Home team scored about 90. For about 3 minutes in the third quarter it was non-stop up and down from trail to lead. My gut stayed in my pants and I didn't get winded, for those of you that care. I did sweat a little. I'll try to do better next time.

However, I did smack into some too-cool-to-use-the-walkway HS kid who decided to walk out of the gym during a live ball and use the playing court to do so. I was going from C to C quick on a break and didn't see him until after I smacked right into him. Bounced right off of me. Good thing I'm not thin as a rail, huh?

Clay, Smitty and I worked together this week, and it went pretty well. I'm also admiring his spelling and grammar. So it might appear as though I would take his side. But I am very impressed that you have backed down a little over the course of this thread. That's a sterling quality that not everyone has, and you will find that life gets a lot easier when you can use it a little earlier in a discussion. My guess is that you will grow up into a fine man, especially if you keep up the self-evaluation effort.

Being A BIG Referee
 

As a BIG guy...I'm sorry that I got in on this post so late...but let me give some perspective from the other side!

I'm 34 years old, I'm 6-3 and I weigh about 280 during basketball season. I wear a 46 pant and a 3X shirt. My gut doesnt' hang over my beltless slacks, and I can see the gloss on my shoes if I' bend just a little at the waist! I'm not the slowest guy in our chapter of 100, but I'm probably at the top of the top 10!!!:D I've been officiating since I was 20.

I figured out several years ago that in order to advance and do a good job, I was going to have to work really hard. My handicap in appearance, must be compensated for in judgement and hustle. So, yes, I do sweat like a pig sometimes when my skinny young partner is on cruise control! It took my assignment secretary a couple of years to realize that I could work just about any game in our area. I'm sure that there are some "young bucks" in our chapter that feel like they should be in my games...and I think that there are some guys in higher games that aren't as good as I am. That occurs in officiating regardless of size! It takes a tremendous amount of ego (confidence) to officiate...and we all have a hard time setting that ego aside when it comes to working games. I don't know too many referees that openly admit that they have no business in a higer game!!! Do you???

Anyway...what is the bottom line? For me, it is this: Can the guy referee the game? Is he respected, does he hustle, will he make the tough calls at the tough times (experience)? If the answer to those questions is yes...then he gets the game...even if he could stand to lose a few pounds.

Back to what someone touched on earlier about moving up.A guy in my assoc. who has years of experience and is a great ref does j.c. and d3.He was told lose weight and you will be d1 and not until.Like whoever said it to Clay you might get good h.s. games but you can only go so far if you don't look good.

Re: Being A BIG Referee
 

Here's how to admit it, without admitting it.

"In an emergency, I think I could pull my own weight, and get the job done."