Last night in boys varsity game, I had this happen. On the jump ball to start the game, Team A secures posession of the tapped ball and the arrow is set towards Team B. About three quarters of the way through the first quarter, there is a held ball. My partner is handling the administartion of the insuing throw in for Team B. Ball is at the disposal of Team B, but has not yet been inbounded, when B1 sets an illegal screen and is called for the foul. Foul is administered and we go on with the game. To start the second period, I noticed that the arrow was pointing towards Team A. The table motioned for me to come over to discuss the arrow. I told them that the arrow shouldn't have been switched to Team A, because there was a foul prior to the alternating posession throw in ending. Therefore Team B should be getting the ball out of bounds. My partner who was the "Referee", and a "Big Time College" official, overturned my decision and gave Team A the ball for the throw in to start the second period. I didn't agree with him, but didn't want to argue with him in front of both teams. We talked about it at half time, and he told me that as soon as Team B had the ball for the throw in, they had established '"Team Control" (?????????????), and that at that time the arrow was to be reversed. Therefore, Team B had lost their opportunity to have the alternating posession throw in. To avoid conflict, I just agreed with him and went with his interpretation, although I knew he was wrong. How would you have handled this situation? To my knowledge, the only way to lose the arrow on an alternating throw in is by a violation from the team throwing in the ball. A foul prior to the throw in ending doesn't cause a team to lose the arrow. Am I right or wrong?

You were right. And I thiink you handled the situation as best as you could. He evidently was not going to come off of it and nothing good is going to come out of a lengthy discussion btwn you and partner. Get the ball in play and go. You don't want the whole gym looking at you and your partner. The less attention you draw to yourselves the better ;)

I have had this happen a couple of times. I just nod and go on but after the game when we are talking about the game I will suggest that we double check to understand it better, quickly look it up in the books and then not belabor the point. If he does not want to check it out then it is his loss and I move on.

Can you supply some examples (please be specific) of the violations that would make a team lose possession during a throw-in?

Thrower-in steps over boundary line.
Thrower-in leaves designated spot.
Thrown-in ball lodges between backboard and rim.
Thrower-in travels OOB (JUST KIDDING)

Well, by FED rules, your partner was completely wrong, as you already know. But by NCAA rules, he was half right. In NCAA rules, there is team control during a throw-in (NCAA 7-6-1). However, the arrow still doesn't change until the throw-in ends (when it's controlled inbounds, NCAA 4-64-5) or until the throw-in team violates (NCAA 4-2-2).

I am sure that Chuck or someone will be along soon to confirm or correct this. I believe that the college rule says that there is team control when the ball is at the disposal for a throw in. This being the case he was correct at the college level, obviously in error at the high school level.

[/B][/QUOTE]How would you have handled this situation? [/B][/QUOTE]

We occasionally have this problem with a football official we work with, who also works D-1. We get along well with him and when he trys to impart college rules on a high school game we gently or maybe not so gently remind him that we aren't playin on Saturday, and to get back to our rules...he takes it well and we move on...depending on your relationship with this guy you could do that or politely remind him of the rules difference. Considering the situation I think you did just fine.

:D

It has happened to me
 

When it happens, I politely disagree with the ref in the locker room and offer to look up the rule. Even then, after reading the rule, I have had referees say "It doesn't mean that" and still insist they are right. However, it has gotten back to me on more than one occaision that Mr. Bigtime Referee and challenged his buddies to the exact same scenario (now armed with the correct interpretation) to prove to them how much they know. Once, I heard back that one Mr. Bigtime Referee retold the story, only switched who was right and who was wrong - in that case, you can't do anything about it (the jerk!).

Mr. Bigtime can be informed of the correct ruling if done in a tactful, polite manner. They have experience and should be respected - although they are sometimes wrong.

I see he beat me to it. thanks Chuck :)