I know we have had a heated discussion here on wheter or not to stop play to fix a hung net after a basket. I noticed last night in the Oklahoma T Tech game last night play was stopped to do this T tech had already inbounded the ball and was advancing to towards the front court when the new trail blew it dead and fixed the net. T Tech was then given the ball back on the baseline with the opertunity to run (oklahoma was pressing). Just wondering if anyone has seen an NCAA bulletin on this or what thoughts are.

No.

Stopping play (especially during pressing situations) to fix the net is flat-out stupid. Unless he is in real tight with the assignor, I think he probably got an earful.

Explain
 

Chuck, you don't think an evaluator would rip him for this do you? I think they might talk about when to blow the whistle to fix the net but and earfull? The purpose of evaluation is not to berate people but to improve their lot!! Are you an evaluator? Coaches and fans rip officials but I hope not an evaluator!!

I don't remember the officials names offhand, but I have seen them working many times in big TV games before. It seems hard to believe to me that they would make a gaff like this unless told SPECIFICALLY to stop play to uncheck a net in cases in which it is hung up.

DJ, at the D1 and professional levels, it's very hard to get there. But it's harder to stay there. Assignors at these levels (and I only know a few personally) are not particularly tactful. If you screw up one of "their" games, they don't take it very well, and they will let you know in no uncertain terms.

I never said he'd get "ripped" by the assignor; I said he's get an earful. They may not "rip" the official -- as in make personal comments -- but they do not sugar-coat what you messed up.

Dan can probably confirm this story about a D1 assignor. The assignor went to a league game to observe his three officials. One of the officials did not have a very neat appearance. Among other things, his shirt was noticibly old. After the game, the assignor went in to the officials' locker room. He took the shirt out of that official's bag and threw it in the trash. His only comment to the official was "Now go buy a new [bleepin] shirt." The official was not invited back to the conference the following season.

The point is that if you do something stupid in a D1 game, the assignor will find out and call you on it. And the experience is not likely to be pleasant.

At what point do you fix the net? I really don't see the harm in doing it as it was done, and I know someon will enlighten me. I guess I would have a hard time stopping play in a pressing situation if the ball was allready inbounds.

Shouldn't the real "blame" go to the "old" trail that didn't catch it and blow it dead?

Chuck, how can you say that stopping play for a stuck net is flat-out stupid?

A goal cannot count unless the ball goes completely through the hoop. If B1 steals the ball and the stuck next "blocks" his shot, don't we have an even bigger mess than if we stop play to fix it?

Z

To clarify the situation, it was not an all out pressure on the throw in press. There were defensive players in the back court, as well as the ball clearly being inbounded before the whistle was blown.

I guess I am missing something. I would stop play as soon as I notice it. Yes, I would use common sense, if we are in the middle of a possible trap or tie up, then I would wait. But, Just because we have a press, all the more reason to fix the net.

How many times does this happen? When is the last time you actually saw a shot that was prevented from entering the basket by a flipped net?

In 25 years of playing, coaching and officiating, I've seen it exactly one time. And that was during a practice when my teammate intentionally flipped it and pulled as tight as he could.

In the normal course of play, this never happens. Don't stop the game. When you get a clock stoppage, if you feel compelled, then go ahead and get it down. There is no reason to stop the clock to "fix" the net.

He probaly could confirm it.

Never, because I've always stopped play to get it fixed right away when I'm trail. In pre-game warm-ups, I've seen the net get stuck a few times and the shots taken after that are almost always prevented from going through the cylinder by the stuck net.

Z

Z, I'm not doubting your veracity. If you say it happened, then I believe it. But I am having a hard time reconciling how our experiences can be so diametrically opposed. I've seen it literally once in 25 years, and you see it several times in warm-ups? Hard to figure.

My position is the same. Fix it at the next clock stoppage. Don't interrupt the game to do it. JMO.

So how much did that new jersey cost you, Dan???

paranoia
 

If that kind of paranoia exists in Div I so be it but in a high school game I will stop and fix the net. I also believe that no conference is going to get rid of an official because his shirt is old. If he has other qualities to be at that level nothing would be more foolish on the part of his conference than to get rid of him based on the color of his shirt he must have had other issues than his shirt. Come on Chuck, we are not that naive!!! Peace!!

I agree, hard to figure. While I haven't had it happen in a game this year, I had it happen a couple times last year in a game. Usually on a long three-pointer that rips nothing but cord. Maybe our schools use cheaper nets than the schools you work. ?? In my girls game last Friday night, the net got stuck during warm-ups. I remember well because one of the girls asked me to jump up and get it down. I just laughed and said, "yeah right, maybe 5 years ago but not now!"

Out of curiousity, in that one game that you had it happen... what was the result? What happened the next time the team shot at the stuck net? Did the ball just go through and no problem?

Z

Chuck can probably confirm that I was most definitely NOT the victim in this story. ;)

Z, I've seen the net get flipped plenty of times. It's not uncommon. Maybe that's our confusion. I'm not talking about simply having the net flip up. I agree that happens quite often. What's uncommon in my experience is to have the flipped net interfere with a shot. The flipped net is almost never flipped so tightly as to prevent the shot from going through.

The "one time" I refered to was not in a game, but during a team practice 20-odd years ago. My teammate was trying to be funny so he flipped the net over the rim, then jumped again and pulled it through tightly. Next guy in the layup line had his layup sit on top of the net. That's the only time I've ever seen the net stop a shot from going through.

To be honest, I can't; b/c I have no idea who the official was in the story. I can only confirm that the assignor tells the story to make his point.

Ahhh...but you can confirm I was in the room when you heard the story (can't you?) and you can confirm that the assignor in question would have had no problem pointing out the victim if he was in the room when he told the story.

Re: paranoia
 

Let me just ask you a simple question, DJ. Why? Why stop the game to pull down the net? It has no effect on the game if it's up. So why not just leave it? Either the next shot will knock it loose, or some kid will jump up and get it down, or you'll have a clock stoppage anyway and you can go do it. Why interrupt the game for something that has no bearing on the game? B/c the players all point to the net? Just something to think about.

You can believe it or not, DJ. I can only tell you that this story was told to me by the assignor himself. Perhaps he made it up to emphasize a point to his audience; but I doubt it.

True enough.

And true enough. :D

Why stop play?
 

Why stop play if the net is hung up? Because in our part of the country it is the accepted thing to do and everybody does it. If your area is different then I can accept that. I have often thought that an official exchange with different areas of the country would be fun but of course it is not practical. I think that we would all find out that we are on the same page in respect to most parts of the game and the areas that are different are the trivial issues that have little or no bearing on the final outcome of a game! Ah, yes five games this week and I have a sore throat and our first game of the week was a dog fight! Things are really looking up!!! But, you've got to love it and by the way I am lucky enough to have a great wife who lets me do what I love to do and for this I am thankful!!

I believe the Trail official (whether it was his whistle that stopped play or not I don't know) was Mr. Scott Thornley. A multiple final four official... doubt his job is in jeopardy. May have still gotten an ear full.

I know he was working the game and I only saw a glimpse of a rather gray-headed official OOB when the play was stopped. I was surprized to see it happen.

And his shirt looked fine. :D

Re: Why stop play?
 

As the Northeast US delegate I'm empowered to offer you
Chuck in return for 3 dead monkeys.

We're playing hard ball on this - I can negotiate the number of dead things, whether the dead things are monkeys or not or if the things I come back with are dead or not.

I just can't come back with Chuck.

Re: Re: Why stop play?
 

As the Northeast US delegate I'm empowered to offer you
Chuck in return for 3 dead monkeys.

[/B][/QUOTE]Three dead monkeys for this?

http://www.sodamnfunny.com/Picture/Animal/photo7.jpg

Hardly fair!

Btw, I agree with Rocky, er Chuck. Fix the net when you get a dead ball.

Re: Re: Why stop play?
 

Hmmm, not sure I can go three dead monkies. But I've got some ABC gum (now flavorless), some ear wax, and a significant quantity of navel lint. If he's finally bought that new shirt, I'll throw in a couple of comic books. :D

Re: Re: Re: Why stop play?
 

Three dead monkeys for this?

http://www.sodamnfunny.com/Picture/Animal/photo7.jpg

Hardly fair!

Btw, I agree with Rocky, er Chuck. Fix the net when you get a dead ball. [/B][/QUOTE]

You're nuts!

Anyway, it doesn't have to be 3...we'll settle for 1 lanyard.

(BTW, I agree.)

Re: Re: Re: Why stop play?
 

Hmmmmm....what kind of comic books? (You can keep the lint & wax...yuch)

Re: Why stop play?
 

If that's what they do, then that's what they do. But this is not like belts vs. beltless pants. We're not talking about fashion. We're talking about interrupting the flow of the game for no good reason. If you stop the game to get the net down, you give the scoring team plenty of time to set up their press; or to get a sub into the game at an opportune moment; or you may take away the long outlet pass. Why do that for something that has no bearing on the game at all? I don't get it.

If everybody in your area jumped off a bridge. . . Sorry, never mind. I was channelling my mom there for a second :)

Our side!
 

Chuck, I'm sure happy you are a referree and not a coach because I like to have guys like you on my team. I can see that you can take a little heat and like a good battle. I could get my hinder in a binder and I know that you would do the best that you could to help me out. That's the kind of partner I like when I take the floor. Likewise, "I will be there when you need me!"

Two things:

1. 6-7-1 states that a ball is dead when a goal is made.

So why not stop it immediately after the basket but before the ball is inbounded? You could be stopping the clock but not creating a dead ball.



2. 1-10-1 says that the basket shall consist of a white cord mesh net suspended from beneath the ring.

If the net is not hanging freely beneath the ring the basket is an illegal piece of equipment. If you wouldn't start the game that way how can you continue? Are there any other instances where we continue playing with illegal equipment?

Or are you saying that if the ball had already been inbounded that we should way until the team that caused the net to get hung up gets the ball back, therefore not penalizing the opponent?

Dubby, please see my previous comments:

You ever use a ball that didn't have the NFHS stamp? You ever use an alternating possession arrow that had one of the lights burned out? You ever work a game where one of the kids has a "1" taped on his jersey so that there's no duplicate numbers? You ever work on a floor where the division line is painted over by the school logo?

The point of the net hanging is so that you can tell when the ball goes through it. It moves. Well, if it's flipped up, don't you think it'll move the next time the ball goes through? Come on, Dubby. Please be serious.

Sigh. I've already said quite clearly what I mean. Do not stop the clock to pull the net down. Wait for a natural break in the game.

I hear what you're saying Chuck, I just respectfully disagree. It's not specifically addressed in the rules and everyone around here stops to fix it too. Maybe it'll never bite you, but the first time a shot doesn't go through because the net was wrapped, have fun with that one (and yes, I really have seen it happen). I'd rather deal with a coach who thought he was going to run a fastbreak off a made field goal than a basket that popped out.

Z

Soooooo....you're saying that if the ball goes through when the net's up there on the ring, you're gonna wave the shot off for having been scored in an illegal basket?

I can see it now. A down 4 with a few seconds to go. A1 scores, and the net hangs up. B1 takes the ball out for a quick throw-in, The throw-in is stolen by A2 right under the basket. A2 goes up to shoot...and the referee blows his whistle because the net is hung up. Just to make it interesting, let's say that time now runs out within the allowed 1 second lag time for the timer to stop the clock.

Remember, be consistent if you're gonna call this. Gotta call it in all situations. :D

I disagree. I think the whistle should be blown immediately when the net becomes stuck after a made basket.

Tough luck if it helps one team and hurts the other.

This is no different thatn when the ball, as it comes through the net, hit someone bounces to midcourt. The whistle is blown and the ball retrieved to resume the play.

Fix the net and continue. A net that is flipped over the ring can certainly change the outcome of a try that contacts the rim in that area. One that is hung up but entirely below the ring, while not likely, may affect the outcome of a try.

With all due respect, Camron, (and as usual, I absolutely mean that sincerely) that statement is obviously false. If the ball bounces to midcourt, the clock continues to run, shortening the game time. This clearly has an effect on the game. We don't stop the game in that situation b/c of the location of the ball; we stop the game to make sure that the kids get the full 16 minutes of playing time. That clearly affects the game. The flipped net does nothing to affect the game.

While remotely possible, it happens so infrequently (less than once in 25 years, in my experience) that it is not worth interrupting the game for.

The NF at least addressed this last year I believe. They had a comment in the NF/Referee Magazine Basketball Guidebook. They said at the very least to not stop it all night if it happen, but to maybe do it if it happen the first time. After that, you either need to change the net or let it alone. And they also put some responsibility on the Game Management to make sure this did not happen on a regular basis. I can see stopping the game once or twice, but I would not do it all night if it kept happening. But that is just me.

Peace

I've don't stop the clock to unflip a net.

I don't intend to ever stop the clock to unflip a net.

Ok I am officially driving the leave the net alone bandwagon. Had a soph game last nite, stayed to watch the JV game which followed. 2 times the net in the JV game got hung up, either no one noticed it or they didn't want to stop the game. What ever the reason there were no problems at all with leaving it hung up, and there were some pretty "knowledgeable" fans helping us out, and they didn't even say anything....so everyone hop on....plenty of room, the wagon leaves in 15 minutes for a trip to all known basketball venues...