Okay now I know that the NF has a rule against players in the lane disconcerting the free thrower. Does that rule extend to that teams chearleaders? I had an elementary game (5th & 6th graders) last night and only one team had cheerleaders and they where cheering in an attempt to disconcert the free thrower. I just turned around and gave them a stop sign since it was this level and seemed unsportsmanlike in my book. Guess the question is at a JV or varsity level what would you guys do about a situation like this?

At that level, I guess you could call it. But in Varsity I wouldn't. They have certain cheers they say to make the other guy/girl miss.

The other day, the cheerleaders were lined up right on the base line and I told them when we shoot a FT, they have to move off to the side. They can still do their cheers, albeit it off to the side somewhere.

So long as they aren't using artificial noise makers, or in the key (out of bounds extended) they can do it. Why would it be different vs varsity????

No, that's not what the rule states. Any member of the opposing team, whether players or bench personnel, can disconcert.

As for cheerleaders, you overstepped your authority. You have no standing to tell the cheerleaders they can't cheer, no matter what level. You can't only prevent them from standing on the floor during a live ball.

How about this one
 

This happened last night as I watched a varsity game. Team A the home team made a run from behind to get a one point lead with seconds left. Team B takes the ball down, takes a last second shot, misses, but an A player fouls on the rebound before time expires. With 0:00 on clock, Team B takes a 1 and 1. No one on the lane. Player B makes the first one. Game tied.

After the player gets the ball for second shot, a fan gets on base line under basket waving his jacket wildly to distract the shooter. The officals gives the hold clock signal. The player misses. The offical call disconcertion and gives him another shot. He makes it and wins the game. Police escort required.

Should the ref have gotten the ball back, removed the fan, then proceeded, call a disconcertion, or do nothing and go into overtime?

Yes, the official should have stopped the play and had the fan moved, then shoot the throw.

Had this discussion last night about players raising their hands above their heads (as you would normally see) is disconcertion. According to the case book it can be called. When or would you ever call this? (I don't mean that they are waving them or clapping their hands either.)

If all they're doing is holding their hands straight up, don't call it. If they all put them up at the same moment, just as the ball is being shot, you might call it, depending. If they are leaning theirr arms forward and wiggling their fingers, or anything more than that, call it.

Up above you said I overstepped my authority by having the cheerleaders stop in what I considered an unsportmanlike act. Why would this be any different. If the fan is not on the floor would that not be the same as the cheerleaders? Would we not be overstepping our authority?

The fan can yell all he wants from the stands. He can't, however, stand under the basket on the floor waving his jacket and acting like an a$$. The cheerleaders, if cheering from a spot not behind the basket, can cheer as normal.
Player is entitled to a shot with no one guarding him, not a shot in complete silence. I'd even say if the man was in the stands behind the basket, he'd be okay.

As always, my post is not authoritative, and my opinion is open to change upon reading someone else's well reasoned argument; or upon direct orders from the wife.

If there are blechers behind the backboard and there are fans there, then that's fine.

But you don't allow a fan or anybody else to stand on the endline, under the basket and distract the shooter.

Also, I did state that this official was also wrong in his ruling, by posting what he should have done.

Guess my next question is are cheerleaders fans or an extension of the team? Are there any NF rules that state where and what cheerleaders can do and define what they are? I would think they are either associated with the team in which case I believe concertion could be called. Or else they would have to be a fan and there for the fan waiving a coat is no different than cheerleaders chearing.

Cheerleaders are not part of the team, they are organized fans. You don't allow either to stand on the endline (or directly outside it) during a free throw to disconcert a shooter. If they're cheering or waving from their spots, fine. If there are bleachers behind the hoop, and the fan stays there and waves his jacket, he's fine as long as he doesn't have an artificial noise maker. If he jumps on the floor and does it, get the ball, have the fan removed, and play on.

The rule states, "No opponent shall disconcert the free thrower."

A cheerleader is not an opponent. There's no such thing as "an extension of the team." Cheerleaders are simply advocates for their team/school. The only rule requirement is that they may not stand on the fllor and cheer during a live ball. If they are in the bleachers, you cannot stop them from cheering. Whether fans or cheerleaders, you do not allow them to stand on the endline and distract the shooter. But if it happens, it is not disconcertion.

[Edited by BktBallRef on Jan 7th, 2004 at 11:29 AM]

What rule states that you do not allow this and what is the penalty stated for breaking this rule.

2-8-1
The officials shall:
Penalize unsporting conduct by any player, coach, substitute, team attendant or follower.
NOTE: The home management or game committee is responsible for spectator behavior, insofar as it can reasonably be expected to control the spectators. The officials may call fouls on either team if its supporters act in such a way as to interfere with the proper conduct of the game. Discretion must be used in calling such fouls, however, lest a team be unjustly penalized.

Simply have the person moved.

The rule regarding cheerleaders is found in the NFHS COMPREHENSIVE GUIDE FOR SPIRIT COACHES. Our state association also publishes it in their handbook.

Cheerleaders must remain seated during all live balls, which includes after the free throw shooter is handed the ball. Cheerleaders may not come onto the floor during 30-second timeouts.

I will give you that had I called disconcertion last night I would have over stepped my authority. Stopping the cheerleaders in my opinion was stopping an unsporting act from happening. Of which I could quote the above rule in support of my actions. Read my original post I did not call disconcertion. I stopped what I felt was an unsportsmanlike act. Guess it depends on what you call sportsmanslike.

Steve, I might just do the same at a 5/6 grade game as well. It's really a different ball game, with different expectations, at that level. You asked, however, what we'd do in a jv level or above. Telling the cheer leaders to stop cheering during a free throw is inviting trouble, IMO, short of a directive from your assignor or state association.
Short of personally insulting cheers, I'm having a hard time coming up with a situation where I'm going to address the cheerleaders during a game. Okay, if they're in my way, that's another story.

Adam

You can't stop cheerleaders from cheering anymore than you can stop fans from cheering. If you choose to do so, then you do what less than 1% of officials would do. You're also going to get yourself in trobule eventually. So, you can be defensive about what you did or you can learn from the mistake, and move on. But either way, you have no standing to stop cheerleaders or fans from cheering, as long as they remain off the floor.

BBR what state are you from. Wish our cheerleaders had to sit during live balls. In my part of Illinois the cheerleaders are usually on the end line but not in the area from the lane lines extended. They are there all the time. Makes lead position fun at times.

Exactly on what planet is THIS rule followed? ;)

I agree. I do JV and Varsity contest more than elementary and would never stop the cheerleaders there from cheering. However it seems getting called out by BBR and then to me what seems like contradicting interpetations of what fans you can and can not tell to stop.

Well, it's followed here. We do not allow them to stand on the floor during FTs, or during normal play when the clock is running.

Not sure how I called you out. But if you feel challeneged by what I wrote, then that's a good thing. ;)

But I am curious what you feel are "contradicting interpetations."

As for our cheerleaders, they sit in the bleachers.

My question here is what are we calling the floor? Just inside the boundry lines? Given your post up above I believe our cheerleaders are what you would consider on the floor but want to confirm that before jumping to conclusions.

I suppose you have a situation where the cheerleaders are beyond the endline, as they are in college games. Is that were they stand? And if so, what's to prevent them from kneeling, instead of standing during live balls?

About not stopping a fan "on the floor" but allowing the cheerleaders to in a way disconcert. By the way our cheerleaders are on the floor and not in the bleachers. I agree that at a higher level I would have never made this call but do not feel I was out of my authority to do so if I deemed necessary even at a higher lever. Again it comes down to interpetation of unsporting behavior. Same reason you would ask the fan to move.

Well they are usually cheering during live balls. Part of the problem last night was a small gym and not alot of room beyond the endline so to kneel they would probably have to have some part on the inbounds part of the floor.

Is the fan supposed to be there? Would a fan normally be in this position if the clock was running? Is he in the bleachers behind the goal? If not, and he simply moves to this position to distract the shooter, then we have a fan that is interferring with the proper administration of the game. He's in a position where he has no business and where fans are not normally allowed. Now, if he's in the bleachers behind the goal and he's allowed to be there, then fine.

As for your cheerleaders, if on the baseline is where they normally are, then there's nothing wrong with them cheering during a FT. However, if they are standing, then you can certainly make them sit, as the rules allow for this. But the rules do not allow you to tell them to stop cheering.

Then quite honestly, if there's no more room than that, I would probably move them before the game even started. There's too much chance of injury to the players, the cheerleaders, and the officials.