weird push play

[rainmaker]

Okay, all you hoop-lawyers, and fellow-arguement-lovers. Here's a weird one for you to "interpret". I actually saw this play. I didn't call it because I wasn't sure WHAT to say!

A1 dribbled into the key, and just as she was going up to shoot, B1 fronted her with good defense and arms straight up. Now as the ball was released, B2 ran up behind B1 and shoved B1's shoulders so that B1 fell into A1 and interfered with the shot. Scramble for the rebound, quick outlet up the floor and I decided to follow the play and worry about that mess later.

So what is it?

[BktBallRef]

Two questions that might help you make this call:

Is it illegal for B2 to push B1?

Is it legal for B1 to push A1?

[Edited by BktBallRef on Nov 23rd, 2000 at 09:24 AM]

[hoopsrefBC]

I would call a foul on B2 and award two shot if A was in the act of shooting. I would also talk to B2 about their actions if possible.
keep smiling
sh

[JRutledge]

I totally agree with that assessment.

Originally posted by hoopsrefBC
I would call a foul on B2 and award two shot if A was in the act of shooting. I would also talk to B2 about their actions if possible.
keep smiling
sh

[PAULK1]

I can see 2 possible calls here depending on the situation
If B2's push of B1 into A1 was accidental then a personnel
foul on B1(it's still a foul even if they didn't intend to do it), However if B2's push was deliberate I would consider an intentional foul on B2.

[MOFFICIAL]

Even though the contact was caused by B-2 I would still call on B-1 because B-1 made the actual contact with A-1

[rainmaker]

I agree in spirit that the foul should be on B2. But how can I call a foul on someone who made no contact at all with the opponent? I think it was intentional on the part of B2, I couldn't tell whether B1 saw it coming or not. I considered calling B2 for unsportsmanlike conduct -- a T. Hmmm.... that covers the spirit of the thing yet seems a little extreme.

Anyway, BkBallRef has asked the right questions, and I suppose the best call is on B1, even if she wasn't "in on it". Let her talk to the coach about it.

After this discussion, I expect I'll never see it again -- like carrying an umbrella so it won't rain!

juulie

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by rainmaker
Anyway, BkBallRef has asked the right questions, and I suppose the best call is on B1, even if she wasn't "in on it". Let her talk to the coach about it.

julie

Good call!

[PAULK1]

I have reconsidered my original position as far as the intentional foul in the case of B2 doing this deliberately
instead after looking at 10-3-8 I might consider this an
unsportsmanlike act or conduct and charge a technical foul.

[Hawks Coach]

Originally posted by PAULK1
I have reconsidered my original position as far as the intentional foul in the case of B2 doing this deliberately
instead after looking at 10-3-8 I might consider this an
unsportsmanlike act or conduct and charge a technical foul.

So now do you have a personal foul on B1, since B1 had the illegal contact with A1, plus a technical on B2? You could easily make a case for this.

[PAULK1]

While you maybe able to make a case for calling a foul on B1
and a T on B2 I would probably Just call the T on B2 and ignore the follow on contact. I would also count the basket
if A1 had started his try when B2 pushed B1 if the ball goes in. The point is that A will still get 2 free throws and the ball and B2 will probably never try this tactic again.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by rainmaker
I agree in spirit that the foul should be on B2. But how can I call a foul on someone who made no contact at all with the opponent? I think it was intentional on the part of B2, I couldn't tell whether B1 saw it coming or not. I considered calling B2 for unsportsmanlike conduct -- a T. Hmmm.... that covers the spirit of the thing yet seems a little extreme.

Anyway, BkBallRef has asked the right questions, and I suppose the best call is on B1, even if she wasn't "in on it". Let her talk to the coach about it.

After this discussion, I expect I'll never see it again -- like carrying an umbrella so it won't rain!

juulie

I saw one a while ago that was as good as yours. A2 pushes
A3 into the path of B1, who is guarding A1 with the ball.
A1 is sprung by the illegal screen and moves to the basket.
All this happened right in fron of me as lead and I got A3
for the illegal screen.

[Brian Watson]

In looking at the rule book one would have to say call the foul on B1. The rule book states that a foul is illegal contact (in this case a push) only against an opponent. So by rule I guess you have to call B1.

Having said that, I would have hit B2 with an intentional foul because it was an off ball push with the direct intent of disrupting play. The spirit and respect of the rules and fair play toward an opponent went out the window when he did that. I would have counted the bucket if it went, and awarded the proper number of tosses. The only thing that would saved him from getting tossed in my view is that it was his own teammate, thus the probability of a fight is minimized.

[Tim Roden]

Just for the fun of it. Why not call a multiple foul. Still two shots but both players get credited with a foul.

[mick]

Originally posted by Tim Roden
Just for the fun of it. Why not call a multiple foul. Still two shots but both players get credited with a foul.

Tim,
The case doesn't meet the definition of a multiple foul does it?
I've got B1 with a push, and two throws for A1.
mick