My coach is always calling us stupid, and other stuff. When we make a mistake he yells profane language at us. I'm getting tired of this and don't know what to do. What would you all do?

Why not give the coach a T?
 

He is calling you names (getting personal).

He used profane language.

It sounds like he was doing this more than once. I think you should have done something earlier than let this just go on, but I see nothing wrong with T'ing the coach at this point.

Peace

Poor boy !
 

What we usually tried to do was to quit screwin' up.

Verbal Abuse
 

Probably a dumb question on my part? Is this verbal abuse directed towards the players or the officials? Sorry I'm knew to the board so I dont know who Blade is.

Re: Why not give the coach a T?
 

Jeff, he's a player, not an official.

If it's a huge issue for you AND your teammates, then you should get your parents involved and request a meeting with the AD.

[Edited by BktBallRef on Jan 4th, 2004 at 04:38 PM]

Re: Poor boy !
 

That doesn't justify some of the profanity that's directed at kids these days.

I am with Mick on this one.
 

Well, that changes things does it not. ;)

I agree in principle. But you would have to tell me what words were being used in order for me to have a problem with it. What some consider offensive, others consider everyday conversation.

Peace

Quietly let the officials know and ask them if they would address it with the coach if they hear anything unsporting such as what you are talking about. Or ask them to report it to the state.

Should not get involved.
 

Any official worth their salt is not going to get in the middle of that. Especially when they do not hear anything.

Peace

Coddle away, if you like.
 

I do not coddle whiners.

[Edited by mick on Jan 4th, 2004 at 05:21 PM]

Re: Should not get involved.
 

Its funny this came up. I had a D1 official tell me earlier this week, she had a naia game and she T'd the coach verbal abuse to his players. He constantly yelling and calling them stupid.

Re: Re: Should not get involved.
 

I once warned a Coach about such a decorum distraction, and he stopped.

Re: Re: Should not get involved.
 

I think someone raised an interesting point some time back. When they saw an article and stated the experience level of the D1 Men's officials and the experience of a particular D1 Female official that got to that level in about 3 years. I realize everyone is going to overract to my statement, but a female D1 official might have less experience at officiating, then most HS officials I know. ;)

Peace

document the situations.

take it to school authorities

Re: Coddle away, if you like.
 

Well, he may or may not be whining. I've heard some pretty abusive coaches, and I think you could complain about them without whining.

Re: Coddle away, if you like.
 

A John Kerry supporter I see... :)

Re: Coddle away, if you like.
 

If a coach calls us (officials) stupid or uses profanity directed towards us we react and T him up. But the kids have to just take it?

Do players hafta take it?

I think they cannot, are not able to take it.
The children are soft. Their ears hurt or are injured to easily.

Let them all go get on a soap box and complain about their feelings to a bunch of people they do not know, a bunch of people that have never seen this interaction.
---or---
Let them go to their coach, their parents, their school officials and express their concern.
<HR>
<U>The post reads</U>:
"<I>My coach is always calling us stupid, and other stuff. When we make a mistake he yells profane language at us. I'm getting tired of this and don't know what to do. What would you all do?</I>"

This post says nothing about during a game and under our auspices. It reads to me like this is happening during practice. The way to stop a coach from yelling is to quit goofing off, to quit screwin' up or to start askin' some available authority for advice. Quitting is a very poor option.
mick

Hmmm, who said anything about quittin'? :)

I don't know how old this person is, though he/she sounds fairly young. I think age would come to bear in this matter. All he/she was asking for was advice--not being sure what to do and probably being somewhat immature (which is not necessarily a bad thing). Expecting a young person to have consumate communication skills on how to effectively approach a coach and resolve a personal and very potentially volatile situation like this is expecting a great deal.

I also read nowhere their intent to quit, only that the abuse was getting tiring.

It all seemed pretty open to me; an innocent request for ideas and help.

Just me, Tony.
I never recommend doing that.

We had a volatile coach in High school.
He cursed, he screamed, he belittled, he hit us with a clipboard.
Had a coupla good athletes quit their junior year.
Very bad choice, but we didn't need 'em anyway.
What don't kill us makes us stronger. ;)
mick

...except when it doesn't.

Not saying I agree or disagree with you about the kid & his coach, just disagreeing with your last comment.

I am recommending it. If you cannot take the heat, get out of the damn kitchen.

I do not care how old this kid is. I dealt with coaches that cursed and fussed a lot. I dealt with it and moved on. I would rather have the coach curse and fuss than run the heck out of us, like I had when I played sports. And would run us for how many points we gave up over a certain total or if we fouled out or how many FTs we missed.

These kids are just soft today. ;)

Peace

Dan,
Yeah, I know. Yer right.
I used to be a parent.
I think we went with something like "break the will and but never the spirit".
Maybe it was because of the way I was coached. :)
mick

Same coach, eh, Rut? :)

Same coach.
 

:D

Blade3,
This can be a difficult question to answer because we are not there to see or observe. There are some important factors such as your teams age, where and how often this "abuse" or "style of coaching" takes place and the temperment of all involved. If your coach is approachable then talk to him but do not whine or complain behind his back. Tell him that the coaching is bothering you or mention your concerns, then listen to what he says or tries to teach. If you are not comfortable with the coach, then try your parnets with the same thing. If you are not comfortable with that, find someone to communicate with, an assistant coach, a teacher or counselor, etc.
However, also realize that what may appear to be intolerable or unbearable MAY be a coach that is trying to get the most out of you and wants you to excel (not to be confused with winning at all costs). Many coaches truly care about their players and show it in different ways. And some coaches go to far. This is something you need to analyze, talk to someone if needed and then act appropriately. Best of luck and nice to see you on the board.

Who cares if you're a player, T him up anyways. :D

Re: Re: Coddle away, if you like.
 

Oh, ok. Nice to finally meet the one guy who's planning on voting for him. . . ;)

Book Suggestions (a little OT...)
 

Three interesting books related to player-coach interaction:

<a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0736033270/qid=1073316973//ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i0_xgl14/002-8467031-4715251?v=glance&s=books&n=507846">Creative Coaching</a> - A book for coaches that specifically focuses on interaction with players and team-building. The author uses a number of prestigious top-level coaches as examples of various principles.

<a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0671688774/qid=1073317121//ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i0_xgl14/002-8467031-4715251?v=glance&s=books&n=507846">Season on the Brink</a> - This always strikes me as more of a story about a player-coach relationship than one about an IU basketball season. Reading it leaves plenty of room for discussion about the impact of Coach Knight's style of interaction with his team and his key player. The ongoing saga of their relationship adds to the mystique a bit, too. One thing I like about the book is that both sides of the "pro-" and "anti-" Bob Knight debate like to point to the book for evidence to support their views.

<a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0385511612/qid=1073317213//ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i0_xgl14/002-8467031-4715251?v=glance&s=books&n=507846">Bleachers</a> - A fairly recent John Grisham novel that has its main characters looking back at their relationship with their sometimes-abusive former football coach. Personally, I liked this effort better than Grisham's trademark lawyer stories. It's a very quick read.

And finally an interesting web site: http://www.positivecoach.org/
This group is devoted to positive coaching principles in all levels of competition. Their teaching motto is "Honor the Game." I like a lot of their ideals even if I don't always live up to them as a coach.

I'm more of a coach than an official. As my coaching responsibilities have increased, my officiating has decreased (to the point where I barely officiate any more). While there are certainly exceptions, many coaches fail to appreciate what it takes to be a great official, and many officials are quick to expect the worst from coaches.

A note to the (apparent) player who started this thread: At the risk of appearing to "coddle," I will say that I like my players to approach me directly and privately when they are frustrated. I don't call my players "stupid," but I sometimes say things that I regret. It's impossible to tell much from your message, but I want my players to use the same skills in personal interaction as we teach on the court. These include decisive action, proactive decision making, courage, and the ability to use your emotions without being controlled by them. I would consider talking to your coach privately. Good luck in your season and the rest of your playing days.

Joe T

Nice response, good info.

That's okay, Coach.
 

From time to time, coach coddling creates communication.
mick

[/B][/QUOTE]

Dan,
Yeah, I know. Yer right.
I used to be a parent.
I think we went with something like "break the will and but never the spirit".
Maybe it was because of the way I was coached. :)
mick [/B][/QUOTE]

Mick,

How does one know when they've crossed that line (of breaking the spirit)or is even approaching it too closely?

Also, aren't you once a parent always a parent?;)

Re: Book Suggestions (a little OT...)
 

Last Amateurs, The: Playing for Glory and Honor in Division 1 College Basketball

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books

Yet another great book, but rather than focussing in on the world of Bob Knight & big time basketball it looks at a season in the Patriot league. No scholarships until recently and athletes expected to excel at academics.

It's clear that those coaches respect their kids.



Except for the occasional "HEY! That's an illegal screen!" I imagine. ;)

Oh. Never mind. :D

davidw,

Crossing over:
It can be easy to slip or trip on that line.
Sometimes you must cross over to help your partner, and clean up a mess that loud and irate participants are creating. Try not to stay there, out of position, longer than necessary.

Always a parent:
There comes a time when that which seems apparent is no long apparent to them. Perhaps, then, we may become trans-parent. We should take care to maintain our presence, eventhough the rules may have been amended.

mick

Wow! Took me a reading or two to get all that mick, but I think I got it. Back to the stuff that really matters to us. And I'm still chuckling at it. Thanks.

But!! Crossing over is not necessarily 'out of position'.:D

davidw,
I've had over 33 years with one partner, 29 with another, and 25 with another.
They are all good participants, but their postions vary and your partner may be one... or another. You maybe going a two-, three- or (Oh, my, I dislike this!) solo.
Trust me ! It is way to easy to find yourself out of position.
mick

[ [/B][/QUOTE]
davidw,
I've had over 33 years with one partner, 29 with another, and 25 with another.
They are all good participants, but their postions vary and your partner may be one... or another. You maybe going a two-, three- or (Oh, my, I dislike this!) solo.
Trust me ! It is way to easy to find yourself out of position.
mick
[/B][/QUOTE]

Mick,

If I have crossed over, it was because I felt I was going for better position (obviously)but, If on arriving there I find I am not, then--you are right-- I'm not hanging around long. Cause now I've discovered I am out of position.

By the way, how did we get here from the beginning of this post?

I'm just now editing this because I just now realized how really SLOW I was on your post mick. Yikes!:eek: Let's see, 33yrs+29years+25yrs. that's gotta make you how old?! And most certainly it sounds like an expert on "positions"

and by the way, 'stoopid' or not you're entitled to your opinion.:cool:

[Edited by davidw on Jan 5th, 2004 at 03:19 PM]

I think... because I said something stoopid.
<HR>
"Ya think I'm bad tonight? Shoulda seen my last game" - someone here

see edit above. Also, in addition to stoopid we could probably apply a few other choice adjectives!:rolleyes:

If the player thinks the language is offensive or abusive then it IS. Perception is reality. This obviously affects the enthusiasm, performance of the player, and the willinglyness to accept what the the coach is showing the team.

Talk to your parents and have them check with other parents as to their perception. Then meet with the AD or coach.

Being on a team should be fun, win or lose.

He might be exposed.
 

His preception might not be everyone's reality. He might be just like what Mick said, a whiner. And this could backfire on him, because the other players might give their preception of him. ;)

Peace

Re: He might be exposed.
 

Sure i agree, a lot of players like being yelled at and called stupid. :)

I am getting the opportunity to watch a lot of ball this winter because my AAU girls are HS freshmen now - no coaching til March! I see a lot of different styles. I take notes (mainly mental - hope I don't lose my mind).

I was much more of the screamer/berater category 5-6 years ago. I still lose it sometimes (I hate stupidity and laziness - sue me!). But I have dramatically altered my coaching style over the years. As I watch the various HS teams my players are on, I see coaches who scream and coaches who let their players play. The two most egregious screamers have players who don't make their own decisions well, they are looking to the bench for direction, they miss obvious scoring opportunities, they look tense and afraid to screw up, they play a robotic mechanical style, etc. I can't stand to watch it.

I have yet to see a coach that was a hard-core screamer that has had a positive impact on their team as a result of how they coach. I see plenty who don't scream that have some teams playing some pretty fluid ball.

One of my parents has a kid on a screamer's team and thought the screaming was a positive. He wanted me to consider being more in that style to toughen our girls up. So I watched half a game sitting next to him and shared my observations of what was happening on the floor. The team they played against thoroughly trounced them, the coach of that team simply coached, and there was no question that they were tough. The screamer's team was looking over their shoulders at the bench instead of seeing what was happening to them on the floor.

I did explain that every coach has their own style and you can only judge at the end of a season, or several seasons, who is and is not successful with their style ( I didn't bother to point out that the screamer's team has yet to go to the state finals, despite having some talented teams te past couple of years :) ). I also made clear to him that regardless of what he thinks of anybody's coaching style, he needs to support the team to his kid as long as she is on it. But he now understands my coaching philosophy a little better.

Re: Re: He might be exposed.
 

Well then do not join the military. I am sure many were called more than stupid and they function.

I also do not think it is clear that the kids were called stupid or their actions were called stupid. I might not be the most experienced official in the world, but I have seen kids do a lot of stupid things on the court or field. And usually it is when the pressure gets higher.

Peace

I had the opportunity years ago to attend a one-man coaching clinic. It was a two-day clinic and I learned a LOT of basketball. He was one of the best teachers of the game, ever! He forgot more about the game than we ever knew.

His name? Bobby Knight

But..... I know more about handling young men than Bobby ever knew. I'd never play well with his style in treating players. I don't see how anyone can be their best when they are constantly berated and their coach uses fear as a motivator. There are a lot more positive ways to correct a player.

John Wooden
 

I am a little too young to have observed Coach Wooden during his successful endevour at UCLA, but from what I have heard it seems that he was NOT a coach who got results by berating his players or officials for that matter... I have been told that he said very little during the games and was quoted as saying something to the effect, "My players have learned in practice... yelling at them on the court is not necessary."


I had a very unique situation in a game last year where I made my best effort at game management to redirect a coach from his constant belittling of HIS players (7th grade boys). Unfortunately, near the end of the 2nd qtr, I had used up my progression of options and was forced to "whack" him. Suprizingly (NOT), he did not deal with it very well and he forced me to "whack" him again. As he departed the court, the fans (parents of the players on HIS bench) cheered!

Re: John Wooden
 

When it came to the officials, he was a yapper.

Re: John Wooden
 

And kids today would have all kinds of problems playing for him today. He required hair to be cut a certain way. He was very much a disciplinarian. He might not have yelled and screamed, but he was hard on his players. And many did not like the man when they played at UCLA. So yes, he did not yell and scream, but players would find something to be upset about, because he would be the ruler of the program. There would be no "indians" trying to run the show, that is for sure.

Peace

Re: Re: John Wooden
 

I've heard he's not just a yapper, he was a brutal yapper.

Re: Re: Re: John Wooden
 

That was his rep amongst officials.