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-   -   Correct me if I'm wrong . . . (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/11409-correct-me-if-im-wrong.html)

JeffTheRef Sat Dec 27, 2003 10:56am

I have been studiously ignoring correctable error. It ain't gonna happen, except it did, for the first time to me, last summer, when I was warring with a particular scorekeeper. So, I need to be corrected if this is wrong . . .

As I glom it, there are two endpoints after which at which the correctableness of the five correctable errors expires, to wit:

2.10.2______Ball_____ |dead|___|alive|__|dead|
___________Clock____|stopped||running||stopped|


2.10.3______Ball_____ |dead|___|alive|__|dead|
___________Clock____|running||running||stopped|


2.10.2 applies to the first 4 errors, 10.2.3 to the 5th (the case where the ball has gone through the basket).

Do not 2.10.2: " . . . during the first dead ball after the clock has properly started." and 2.10.3: " . . . before the second live ball." point to the same place, the only difference being the state of the clock during the changes in the status of the ball?


BktBallRef Sat Dec 27, 2003 11:51am

Correct.

Camron Rust Sat Dec 27, 2003 07:25pm

I agree. The correctable error rule, as written, is an exercise in how to poorly word something that is not that difficult.


rainmaker Sat Dec 27, 2003 08:18pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Camron Rust
I agree. The correctable error rule, as written, is an exercise in how to poorly word something that is not that difficult.


As if they needed more practice!

BktBallRef Sun Dec 28, 2003 12:27am

Quote:

Originally posted by Camron Rust
I agree. The correctable error rule, as written, is an exercise in how to poorly word something that is not that difficult.
Agreed, but it also took me a minute to understand Jeff's chart as well. :)

Lotto Sun Dec 28, 2003 08:36am

Quote:

Originally posted by JeffTheRef
2.10.2______Ball_____ |dead|___|alive|__|dead|
___________Clock____|stopped||running||stopped|


2.10.3______Ball_____ |dead|___|alive|__|dead|
___________Clock____|running||running||stopped|


In the first scenario, there could be several live and dead balls that happen before the clock is started. For example, if two unmerited FTs awarded, the ball will become live and dead on the first and second FT (if made) before the clock is started. Another example---ball is put at player's disposal for a throw-in and one team calls a time out. Live ball, dead ball, but clock hasn't yet started.

In both scenarios, the second dead ball does not have to occur with a stopped clock. It could occur with a scored basket as well.

JeffTheRef Sun Dec 28, 2003 10:12am

Thanks, Lotto.
 
Any more detail? I'll see if I can revise this table-like presentation . . .

bcooley66 Mon Dec 29, 2003 03:03pm

The play sequence is the same whether or not the clock was running or stopped. Both scenarios below must be corrected before the second live ball.

If the error was made while the clock was stopped, you must correct before the 1st dead ball becomes alive after the clock has started.

If the error was made while the clock was running, it must be corrected before the second live ball.


JeffTheRef Mon Dec 29, 2003 04:25pm

How is what you say not what the table shows?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by bcooley66
The play sequence is the same whether or not the clock was running or stopped. Both scenarios below must be corrected before the second live ball.

If the error was made while the clock was stopped, you must correct before the 1st dead ball becomes alive after the clock has started.

If the error was made while the clock was running, it must be corrected before the second live ball.


That's what I want to get at. Lotto's comment needs to be accounted for, fer sher . . .

Camron Rust Mon Dec 29, 2003 07:49pm

No need for two sub parts of this rule. Here's how I think it should be worded...

The error is correctable if it is recognized during the first dead ball and after the ball has been live while the clock is running.

Note that the ball is never "alive". If it appears to become alive, run for your life.

JeffTheRef Mon Dec 29, 2003 10:17pm

Thank you, Cameron. In my private life
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Camron Rust
No need for two sub parts of this rule. Here's how I think it should be worded...

The error is correctable if it is recognized during the first dead ball and after the ball has been live while the clock is running.

Note that the ball is never "alive". If it appears to become alive, run for your life.

I am zee moron . . . I should clean up before I go out.

JeffTheRef Mon Dec 29, 2003 10:20pm

Seriously, are you saying . . .
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Camron Rust
No need for two sub parts of this rule. Here's how I think it should be worded...

The error is correctable if it is recognized during the first dead ball and after the ball has been live while the clock is running.

Note that the ball is never "alive". If it appears to become alive, run for your life.


"The error is correctable if it is recognized any time before the end of the first dead ball after the ball has been live with the clock running."

I think this is cleaner, if it's correct.


BktBallRef Mon Dec 29, 2003 11:59pm

Re: Seriously, are you saying . . .
 
Quote:

Originally posted by JeffTheRef
Quote:

Originally posted by Camron Rust
No need for two sub parts of this rule. Here's how I think it should be worded...

The error is correctable if it is recognized during the first dead ball and after the ball has been live while the clock is running.

Note that the ball is never "alive". If it appears to become alive, run for your life.


"The error is correctable if it is recognized any time before the end of the first dead ball after the ball has been live with the clock running."

I think this is cleaner, if it's correct.


I think Camron's is cleaner.

ChuckElias Tue Dec 30, 2003 10:39am

Quote:

Originally posted by Camron Rust
Note that the ball is never "alive".
True for Fed and NCAA, but not in NBA.

JeffTheRef Tue Dec 30, 2003 11:03am

I agree.
 
Now let's finish the rewrite of the rulebook . . .


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