Last second shot - Page 2

RookieDude · #16 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 16, 2003, 10:24am

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
In the initial post, RD said that the trail was standing at the half court line. Only later in the post did he change it for some reason.

Yes, I said he was at half court AFTER the shot, the miss, the rebound, the horn and the subsequent last shot. My partner was in the backcourt when the 1st player took the shot(I thought you would have realized that since the Trail does just that, Trails...and the player was at half court on the shot) Again, it was a throw in from Back court baseline to a player shooting a last second shot at half court...just as I said in my original post.

Quote:

You can rationalize as much as you like but you made a mistake.

You made this statement AFTER after the story was "changed"...so I guess you still thought a mistake was made with the T in the backcourt 40+ feet away and the L less than 6 feet away and in great position.

originally posted by BktBallRef
I have no problem with the L making the call,

...or maybe you are the one "changing" your story...

RD

rockyroad · #17 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 16, 2003, 10:39am

RD, you asked a question and Tony answered it...if you don't like the answers, don't ask the questions in the first place...having said that, you were the official in the best position to see if the shot was off in time or not...you were not the official who needed to be signalling that...the T has the primary responsibility for the last second shot - you bust your butt back out there to your partner and tell him what you have without making any signal on the court - that way you avoid the possibility of you waving it off and partner hammering it home...that's the volatile situation that could come up... hold your signal and go communicate with your partner...

Dan_ref · #18 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 16, 2003, 10:40am

My $.02:

Rookiedude should have let this go, period. Only 2 times when the L should take this. First case is easy, when the T cannot see the play and gives it up to the L. Second case is when you have decided just prior to the play - not pregamed but communicated verbally or by signal immediately before - that the L will take the shot in certain situations.

BktBallRef · #19 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 16, 2003, 10:53am

Quote:

Originally posted by RookieDude

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
In the initial post, RD said that the trail was standing at the half court line. Only later in the post did he change it for some reason.

Yes, I said he was at half court AFTER the shot, the miss, the rebound, the horn and the subsequent last shot. My partner was in the backcourt when the 1st player took the shot(I thought you would have realized that since the Trail does just that, Trails...and the player was at half court on the shot) Again, it was a throw in from Back court baseline to a player shooting a last second shot at half court...just as I said in my original post.

Quote:

You can rationalize as much as you like but you made a mistake.

You made this statement AFTER after the story was "changed"...so I guess you still thought a mistake was made with the T in the backcourt 40+ feet away and the L less than 6 feet away and in great position.

originally posted by BktBallRef
I have no problem with the L making the call,

...or maybe you are the one "changing" your story...

RD

RD, tell ya what. The next time you ask a question, just email me first as to what you want the answer to be and I'll reply for you.

Gees. Rookies.

ChuckElias · #20 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 16, 2003, 11:02am

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref
My $.02:

Second case is when you have decided just prior to the play - not pregamed but communicated verbally or by signal immediately before - that the L will take the shot in certain situations.

Dan, why not pregamed? My $.02 on this is that I pregame it. If we have a "Christian Laettner" play (under 3 seconds, throw in from backcourt endline), last shot is Lead's. This is the only time I expect the Lead to take the last shot.

What's wrong with that approach, Dan?

Dan_ref · #21 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 16, 2003, 11:09am

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref
My $.02:

Second case is when you have decided just prior to the play - not pregamed but communicated verbally or by signal immediately before - that the L will take the shot in certain situations.

Dan, why not pregamed? My $.02 on this is that I pregame it. If we have a "Christian Laettner" play (under 3 seconds, throw in from backcourt endline), last shot is Lead's. This is the only time I expect the Lead to take the last shot.

What's wrong with that approach, Dan?

To clarify, yes last second shot coverage is pregamed but then confirmed verbally or by signal prior to the last shot. Maybe better if I worded it that way.

ChuckElias · #22 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 16, 2003, 11:12am

Ok, I gotcha. Just confirm it before the throw-in, so that we both remember what we pre-gamed. No problem with that.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. · #23 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 16, 2003, 11:19am

Quote:

Originally posted by bob jenkins

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
If I am the Trail in the situation I am going to be listening for two things. The horn and my partner's whistle. If the horn sounds and my partner does not sound his whistle, he is telling me that the ball was released before the horn; if he sounds his whistle, he is telling me that the ball was not released before the horn. With this information I can take care of business.

If the lead isn't responsible for determining the validity of a last-second shot, why would the lead blow the whistle?

Heck, why do we have a whistle at the end of a period at all? (I've watched clincians go round-and-round on this one)

Why not change the mechanic to be "whoever has (or is supposed to have) on-ball coverage is responsible for determining the validity of the last-second shot?"

That is what I have been pregaming for the last couple of years.

Redneck Ref · #24 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 16, 2003, 01:47pm

First off some of you guys dog Rookie Dude because you think he's a rookie. Names can be deceiving. RD is a 14 year vet, number 2 in our association, our rules chairman, last 2 years state tourney, etc...a rookie by no means. Second RD is having a lot of fun with you guys.

Next, if full court pressure, and all 10 players are in the back court (lead is at half court)long pass and player A catches pass at top of key and turns and shoots...Who signals 3 point shot?

Jurassic Referee · #25 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 16, 2003, 03:31pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Red Neck Ref
Second RD is having a lot of fun with you guys.

Next, if full court pressure, and all 10 players are in the back court (lead is at half court)long pass and player A catches pass at top of key and turns and shoots...Who signals 3 point shot?

Lemme see now....player A is in the back court. Someone throws a long pass, and now player A catches that pass at the top of the key.

My conclusion is that either player A is Spiderman, or you're having a lot of fun with us guys too.

Dan_ref · #26 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 16, 2003, 03:46pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Red Neck Ref
First off some of you guys dog Rookie Dude because you think he's a rookie. Names can be deceiving. RD is a 14 year vet, number 2 in our association, our rules chairman, last 2 years state tourney, etc...a rookie by no means. Second RD is having a lot of fun with you guys.

Next, if full court pressure, and all 10 players are in the back court (lead is at half court)long pass and player A catches pass at top of key and turns and shoots...Who signals 3 point shot?

Why dontcha go ask your bud rookiedude, eh "red neck"?

RookieDude · #27 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 16, 2003, 04:01pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Red Neck Ref
First off some of you guys dog Rookie Dude because you think he's a rookie. Names can be deceiving. RD is a 14 year vet, number 2 in our association, our rules chairman, last 2 years state tourney, etc...a rookie by no means.

You're blowing my cover Randy!

Quote:

Originally posted by Red Neck Ref
Second RD is having a lot of fun with you guys.

These "guys" are sharp!...and yes it is a lot of fun to ask questions and see the varied answers. Hopefully, we can all learn from these discussions...real or imagined.

RD

Jurassic Referee · #28 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 16, 2003, 04:57pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Red Neck Ref
RD is number 2 in our association...

And everybody else is tied for first.

RookieDude · #29 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 16, 2003, 05:06pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Quote:

Originally posted by Red Neck Ref
RD is number 2 in our association...

And everybody else is tied for first.

RD

BktBallRef · #30 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 16, 2003, 07:44pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Red Neck Ref
First off some of you guys dog Rookie Dude because you think he's a rookie. Names can be deceiving. RD is a 14 year vet, number 2 in our association, our rules chairman, last 2 years state tourney, etc...a rookie by no means. Second RD is having a lot of fun with you guys.

Yeah right. And I'm scheduled to work my 5th NBA Finals in June.

I've read the questions he asks and the replies he gives. You're the one having a lot of fun.