I'm curious what everyone's stance is on wearing a belt. I don't need to wear a belt, but I always have because I feel it looks better.

Thoughts?

oh boy, here it comes
 

If you prefer to wear a belt, as I do, you should wear one, and that should be the end of it, but it isn't. Just wait, there will be more to follow on this subject, a lot of which I don't understand.

No Belt.
 

We have had this discussion over the years many times. But I think wearing a belt is about like wearing a shirt with a collar on it. Or as a football official or baseball umpire you show up with adjustable hat. No one at the upper levels wear belted pants any more. They are not featured anymore in the major officiating catalogs. Not saying you cannot get them, but the beltless pants are the main sellers for basketball officials in those catalogs. It might not apply to all areas, but if you wear belted pants for a game, it is one of those signs that shows you do not pay attention to detail on many other aspects of your officiating (in my opinion and many other officials I know). Bottom line it comes down to professionalism for me.

You can find pants that fit in most cases. And if you need them adjusted, go to a tailor. ;)

Peace

Re: No Belt.
 

This is what I was talking about. What is the basis for this statement?

Let us break it down.
 

Because whether you want to agree with it or not, we are judged as officials by many things that have absolutely nothing to do with our officiating on the court/field. This is just one of many things that we are scrutinized by when we officiate. And it might just be how we come dressed to the game and how we treat school personnel. I do not think the pants are what make an official, but if you stand out, it can expose or reveal other things about your officiating.

Dude, it is just an opinion that I share along with many others. And whether we realize it or not, we are influenced by the things the NCAA or NBA does. Just look at the new mechanic changes.

Peace

Sometimes you want to stand out as an official or you can get lost in the shuffle. If you can agree with that then wearing a belt makes you stand out with the opposite effect! There are just some things that an official should try to stay away from if possible. Facial hair is one and was talked about recently. To some people glasses are another one. I know a lot of guys that wear contacts, solved. Belts are another. It isn't in writing but it is just one of those things.

I've tried it both ways and I'll stick to wearing a belt too. I've watched other officials in our area and some of the very best wear belts also. Doesn't seem to have affected their ability and if you took a poll among all the coaches, players, and fans who would know who does and who does not; and, who cares? Don't get me wrong, I think we need to be as professional as possible but most of us will never move beyond local varsity and me personaly I like the security of knowing my pants are secure.

Now, why doesn't someone bring up suspenders? I'd vote against that but there's probably someone out there who might be wearing them.

Barry

If you find someone that is wearing suspenders, outside of their shirt or under their shirt, please take a picture for me. That would be funny. I could keep that picture in my bag I take to games!

Absolutely, never, ever a belt.

To each his/her own. IMHO I wouldn't wear a belt.

I don't usually respond to Rut's posts anymore, but he is exactly right in one respect, and quite incorrect in another. He is exactly right that wearing a belt is like wearing a shirt with a collar. Both are perfectly legal to wear, according to the rulebook. You can find both in many places (although certainly not as easily as finding the "newer" fashions).

But wearing the Byron collar is "passe". It's old news, old fashions. And the perception (particularly among other officials) is that the official wearing them doesn't care enough to keep current with the rest of the officiating world.

Wearing a belt, however, is not a sign that "you do not pay attention to detail on many other aspects of your officiating". I have known a couple (but only a couple) very good college officials at the D3/D2 level who wore a belt and never made the transition to beltless pants. But what it does is that it gives the perception that you don't care to keep current. There's a big difference; although I'm sure someone will make the claim that perception is reality.

If Rut had said that wearing a belt gives the perception that you don't pay attention to detail, instead of saying that it "shows" the same, then I would agree entirely with his comments.

My $.02

WOW, what happened to the simple question? I find the remark about glasses offensive! I wear glasses and CANNOT wear contacts. How about the refs that have been around sence GOD was a privet... I find most to be over weight and can't get down the court. Give it up! As for the belt, to me you are wearing a uniform, like a suit if your paints calls for a belt, wear it. Like a police officer, or a army officer in his DRESS uniform, they have belts. Besides a ref should not be noticed on the court, only the players. Often I see to much "grandstanding" by those with as much shine on there shoes as they have on there hair!

In an ideal world, it wouldn't matter.

We don't live or officiate in an ideal world.

If "everyone" else wears beltless pants, and you wear belted pants, the initial impression will be that you aren't a "real" official.

Take it for what it is worth.
 

Just like many things I say, folks try to turn it into something bigger than what it really is. Or make my comments into a mountain out of a molehill. The reality is that there are always exceptions to any rule. But if someone wants to work in the place I live, you will be strongly encouraged to wear beltless pants. Depending on the association, you will be told to <b>"never think about"</b> wearing belted pants.

When we had our IACAO Clinic earlier this month, I did not see Gerry Davis Sports or Honig's have belted pants on display. I did not see them selling belts or anything that associated with belted pants. That tells me that there is a trend that is expected and that trend is put up front. Of course you can still buy belted pants and even a collared shirt in some cases, but that does not mean it is expected. No different than doing a NF game and using many known NCAA mechanics. It might not say you are a bad official, but it does say something about you. What it says can be good and sometimes it could be bad.

I am not saying this is the dark or sharing an original idea. But when I officiated lower level ball, I saw most of the varsity officials wearing beltless pants. And now that I am a varsity and college official, I can count on one hand the times I have worked in my current area that someone had belted pants on during a varsity game. Now I see them much more often at the lower levels, but that can speak for itself.

Peace

I find your last remark to be completely offensive and demeaning! Haven't you ever seen the good,older officials working in the NCAA or NBA? Or have your prejudices blinded you?

I wear them too.
 

Well I wear glasses as well. But anytime I officiate, I wear contacts. One time I wore glasses at a camp and the first question was, "do you wear contacts?" I was not told about my officiating or commented on what my mechanics were, but I was asked about something that I was wearing on my face that falls into the sterotype of "officials cannot see anyway." ;)

Peace

The shine on my shoes may be artificial, but the shine on my hair is as natural as it was the day I was born (we'll actually it's the shine on my head, cause there's not much hair there anymore) :)

What about underwear lines showing through the pants? You all have given me a whole new perspective on the professionalism of wearing beltless pants and that got me to wondering if we might also start wearing thongs to prevent panty or tighty whities lines from showing through. Some might just prefer not to wear any or maybe the jockey type some are wearing now. Don't know if panty hose would be an option because it seems they would be awful hot. Yep, after much careful thought, the thong would probably be best. Wonder how long it will take to get use to that thing. Surely the online stores will include these in the very near future and will have samples at upcoming clinics.

Barry

It is good to know that beltless pants now makes you a better official. When I go to my next clinic how many points do I get for wearing beltless pants? When taking the officials test should I wear beltless pants? Well this make me score higher on the test? Do I remember the rules better with beltless pants? As I see it Iam going to invest in beltless pants, patent leather shoes, and mouse for my hair. And buy the end of next week I should be assinged to my states championship game.

What size of beltless pants should I order? For those who wear the beltless pants do you take in consideration both your waist size and ego's

It's become a sad day when we are prejudged on our looks, and not our ability!

If ever in a job enterview looking for a super skilled computer wiz, that young out of school punk kid comes in dress in his holloween outfit should I not give him the time of day? O did I menchion he was top of his class at
M I T .

BILL GATES FINALLY STARTED TO WEAR A SUIT TO WORK!!!

If beltless pants are to make you look more professional, then why is it when I see officials wearing the beltless pants they are always adjusting and pulling up their pants?
At timeouts and between quarters I see them tucking and pulling.

It's not a new day, it's how it's always been. When that kid shows up for a job interview looking like he doesn't care if he gets it, he probably won't. It takes 10 minutes of thought, at most, to make yourself look presentable in an interview. To me, when that kid shows up, it tells me he doesn't give any thought to how he looks. Frankly, I wouldn't give him the time of day; as there are many other qualified applicants who do, in fact, show their willingness to look and act professional.
Same goes for officiating. No, wearing beltless pants doesn't make you a better official. No one here said it does. It does, however, display your lack of concern for the current uniform. Frankly, it does in fact show that you aren't going to bother with updating your game. It then lends to the perception that you might not even be up to date with the rules changes of the last 10 years.
Adam

Here is a question for the board. A1 passes to A2, A2 misses the ball and goes out of bounds. I am the nearest official to the play. I have on belted pants and my partner is wearing beltless pants. Who makes the call?

I have been replaced from my Varsity boys game tonight. My assignor has found out I do not wear beltless pants.

SNAGWELLS,

Have you seen the "new" breed of young adults getting out of school?

They are hired for the ability they posses with a computer, not how they dress.

I'll take that dorky dressed nerd over your suit and tie glamour boy any day of the week and kick your.......

judge not the cover of the book, but yet the contents of that book!!!!!

Wow! I guess this really started something. We are not the first to officiate basketball. At some point we have stolen something from someone's game. One thing I realized early on was in order to be accepted by the big boys I had to do what the big boys do. In some aspect of life we have all done this. You look up to someone and you imitate them. You hang with the older boys and you don't want them to think you are wierd. Or you are older and someone imitates you. You buy a car because someone told you something about it or someone buys the car you have because something you have. Heck, I live in the DC area and Mercedes Benzs are a dime a dozen. It wasn't like that in Vegas! Officials are wearing pleated pants without belts. Officials are looking more and more athletic. We did not make up the rules this is just the way things are.
From the moment you take that first step onto the court you are being judged. It is just that simple. How you are percieved happens by the time you get into position for warmups. When I have my uniform together and I know I'm in shape that is a walk I love to make. It doesn't make you a better official but this game is changing along with the part we play. We are just talking about what is current. If I made the rules I would change even more stuff but I don't so I will try to stay as current as possible on everything I can prior to stepping onto the court so I can work the game. I'm more relaxed now.

Oh, I was pretty relaxed anyway.

Clay,

What would you wear if you were going to an interview with a fortune 100 company? Would you wear anything different than what you would wear to an interview for a position at a small private business?

I changed to beltless pants about 3-4 years ago because I forgot my belt one night and I did "stand out". Fortunately, I did not need the belt to keep my pants up -- my big butt did that.

I changed to pleated pants a couple of years ago because I like the look of the pants. All of my suits and all of my casual slacks (Dockers, etc.) have pleats. Everything except jeans has pleats.

My association adopted the "no Byron collar" dress code for shirts about 3 years ago, at the scholastic level -- excellent move. Some of our newer officials will wear them for rec games.

It means nothing really but I can't find a single thing to agree with in your post.

No biggie, we're still friends

Hey, it's great to see some youthful idealism out there. Us oldsters get so cynical as we age. Folks, the reality is that people ARE judged by their looks, whether that's fair, proper or right. I wish it wasn't so, but it is. You can rant and rave all you want to, but if you want to move up, you've got to face the reality that as officials we are often pigeon-holed the minute we walk onto the court. Most assignors will tell you right up front what tney want in terms of belts, facial hair, shiny shoes, collar and so forth and so on. If you don't do it, there are another 150 refs who are just as good as you are who will. If you don't want to work for those assignors, okay, but you're not going to change them, so it's totally up to you whether you submit or not. I don't like it either, but that's the way it is.

It has nothing to do with what I would wear to an interview.
Wearing belted or beltless pants does not have anything to do with your ability to officiate a basketball game. To watch officials draw attention to themselves pulling and tugging at the beltless pants all through a game. Belted pants that fit well look as good as a beltless pant. To see a person who is over weight, belly sticking over the waistline and in beltless or belted pants is not pretty. So in this case it would not matter what the over weight official is wearing he is not going to look good, but that does not make him less of an official. just like the pants, they do not make you less of an official.

I think it just depends on what the evaluator(s) in your area find important.

When I'm evaluating a ref, I certainly don't give a rats patootie if they have a belt on or not. However, it is obvious from the comments in this thread that some evaluators do care about that.

Look at the guys in your vicinity who are in the position that you'd like to be at (as far as officiating success). If they are all wearing beltless pants, it may be an indication that there is some belief in your area that wearing beltless pants is part of the "accomplished official" uniform. If a lot of the top officials are wearing belts, it probably doesn't matter.

Z

I wear a belt to go along with my metal whistle ( with a pea in it), my collored shirt and my suspenders.
Just teasin.
I really feel that wearing a belt is a part of the past as far as officiating gear is considered.

As a coach, I can say I never noticed. I never would have read this thread except for the other thread. I judge refs by how they carry themselves on the court and how they call the game. Can they keep up with play, do they keep the game flowing smoothly, do they know the rules, do they have a good sense about how to enforce the rules, etc. Note that sentence never once mentioned belts or collars :)

Clay,

I would absolutely agree that what kind of clothes you wear to an interview has nothing to do with how you can or will be able to perform the job. However, I WOULD argue that what kind of clothes you wear to an interview has MUCH to say about how much you value the opportunity to work at that business. I think this concept can apply to officiating as well.

How many D-I and NBA officials wear belted pants?? If you wanted to be promoted to the NBA level, would wear what the NBA officials wear? If you wanted to be promoted, I think you probably would. If you wanted to be promoted to the D-I level, would you wear the same things the D-I officials wear? I think you probably would.

What about high school? If an official wanted to move up into the state tournament...or advance in the tournament, should that official dress appropriately? I say, "yes". Now what exactly is that? You'd have to look at your region/area and how the best officials dress.

If all abilities are equal and the only thing that separates two officials is that one looks to be more modernly dressed, I say the modernly dressed official gets promoted.

a big thank you to the coach.

Just to clarify, it's "SNAQWELLS", not "SNAGWELLS". It's a Q, not a G. Not that it's a big deal, but it's generally easier to get my attention if you call me by the correct name. :)
Now, once again, I'm not saying that how you dress affects your ability to perform your job.
Let's go back to the business model. You're correct that many people who dress alternatively (to include unnaturally dyed hair, excessive metal potruding from the face, etc.) get hired and do their jobs very well. However, people who dress that way don't generally get promoted in the business world. When there are multiple applicants for a job, you need to stand out positively, and first impressions are key. It's a lot like that resume. If your resume looks like crap, or is filled with typos, it goes in the trash and you don't even get a phone call. If your clothes look like crap, you're not getting that second interview. Are there exceptions? Sure, but they've all graduated top of their class at MIT. That's a select few.
Officiating isn't any different. If you just want to go out and officiate sub-varsity games, and do the best you can do, it won't matter what kind of pants you wear or whether your shoes are shined. If, however, you want to do varsity, college, or higher, those things will matter; because you need to show more than rules knowledge to those who will make or break your career.
Is it fair to be judged by appearance? I think it is, to a degree. It displays one's willingness to do what it takes to get the job done.

First- I whatever you wear has nothing to do with if you can make a call or not, if you are a good official or not.

Second- I'm in the military since someone brought up that aspect of it. We go through phase-in and phase-out of uniforms. If you are not wearing the new up and coming trend, you are percieved by others of not caring, not wanting to further your career, happy where you are at attitude. The person could be the smartest person on the block, but the perception is lazy or doesn't care. And the general public doesnt know the difference. But the person that does your evaluations for promotion notices.

Same in Basketball the general fan may not notice, the coach may not notice.....But the person that has come to your game to promote you to the next level may notice, and if on his check list there is an appearance block that lower mark may be the difference between if you get the job or not.

AK ref SE

Well said!

Mickey or Mighty? :)

Optical or mechanical?

Guys, do what works for you.
 

This is what an clinician told me that does D1. He said when you go to camps, evaluators are looking for "why not" characteristics. The more checks you have in the "why not" category, will hold you back. There are so many officials trying to get to the top, if I have more "why nots" then everyone else, it will hold me back.

Now, I am not telling anyone what to do. You have to find your own way. But what Chuck, Dan or Juulie are all trying to convey here, is that this is what we have noticed in our experience. If you have a different experience, then that is OK. But the reality is that in all the sports I officiate, there are things that are frowned upon when we officiate. And when we wear things that are not proper attire, it holds those individuals back until they change it. It really is that simple. I do not make the rules, I just follow them to the best of my ability. I used to wear belted pants and I changed because it was apparant that I was in the minority with the type of pants I was wearing. And believe me, you are judged on much more than what you wear on your pants. The time you show up, the way you handle your contracts, the way you interact with fellow officials. All those things factor in and none of them have to do with making a single call on any baskeball court. All those things I just mentioned have completely held officials back from moving to the next level. I know guys that have not updated there Quickbase (inside joke ;)) library and that has not gotten them a Freshman game anymore in a particular conference. It may not seem fair, but it is when others are making the decisions. When some of you get to a certain level and you are making the rules, then you can do whatever you think matters. But when you are trying to work or get a game, then you have to listen to what the "Big dawgs" want, your you sit home.

Peace

What about pleats?
 

There always seems to be officials that want to stand out. Once upon a time, they did it by working without a lanyard. Then they did it by wearing white logos on their shoes. Next came beltless pants. The two fashion statements today are pleated pants and gray shirts. IMHO, there will always be officials trying to make a fashion statement. What is boils down to is fashion, pure and simple. And just like fashion on the street, it evolves over time. So you have a choice... you can either be a trend setter, a follower or throw back to the old days.

Is this coming from the guy that prejudged every older official in the world?

Physician, heal thyself!

You're welcome - but please bear in mind that I don't assign your games. Many good points have been made on the other side of this issue, and that may be all that really counts. Mine is an opinion with no wieght.

I wore belted pants for years, but when I got to the JC level I finally decided to get a pair of Sansabelts, and I just find they feel better. Yeah, I tug once in a while, but I also find that for whatever reason, I don't have to tuck in my shirt as often.

I personally think they look "sleeker", but I'm an official, and I notice things like that.

CLAY, you're right. Pants say nothing about your ability, and the average Joe doesn't notice. But if our profession sets (explicitly or implicitly) a certain standard for certain officials, it is not unreasonable to expect people to follow it.

Most people don't care whether you have a belt or not. But chances are, the evaluator in that crucial game, when you're trying to move up, does. Your choice.

What battle will you choose to fight? What hill are you willing to die on?

Could that be because you aren't one of those old, been around forever coaches whose gut hangs over their belt and can't get up and down the court...oh wait, that was refs, not coaches...never mind Jurassic - we'll still down the brownpops with you! :)

Could that be because you aren't one of those old, been around forever coaches whose gut hangs over their belt and can't get up and down the court...oh wait, that was refs, not coaches...never mind Jurassic - we'll still down the brownpops with you! [/B][/QUOTE]Know what, Rock? I could give a diddly-damn-doo about what anybody says about me personally, or about my ability,agility,hostility,etc. They could be completely right as it refers to ME. Where they are completely wrong is to imply that MOST older officials are like that. Hell, I know a pile of officials, and I certainly have nowhere near the knowledge to come up with a "generalization" like that one. I also know a whole pile of older officials who I still marvel at, for the way that they always seem to be able to manage to maintain good court positioning.

End of rant,Rock! Promise!:D

rocky
There's just a bit of that kinda weight behind every opinion I offer, and I do have a certain shine to my head that ain't brill cream (and if you know what I mean by that, you really know what I mean!). :)

As for old refs vs young refs, I've seen the good, the bad and the ugly in all age categories. You either have it or you don't, and I don't care how old you are.

Hey!! I know what you mean (a little dab'll do ya!), and I'm only 37! Does that lump me in with the Jurassic crowd?

I think that the belt is not ultimately the determining factor as to who is a good or bad ref.

What is might be is the determinig factor when all else is equal.

example. 2 refs who are equal in experience, tenure, mechanics, call selection.

One is wearing glasses with a mustache and belted slacks

Other is clean shaven, no glasses and wears Sansabelts.


Hmm , who would the assignor pick / move up to the next level.

For the record, I wear a belt and glasses.

I'm not starting on the age categories here!

Hey!! I know what you mean (a little dab'll do ya!), and I'm only 37! Does that lump me in with the Jurassic crowd? [/B][/QUOTE]As I told you before,Chick,I got haemmorhoids older than you! Better looking too!

Whos Chick-


Hmmmmm must be an age things fingers dont work....must have been caught in the belt!

AK ref SE

Nah, it's just his way of getting me back for calling him "Porky" :)

Okay Chick...uuuuhhh mean Chuck I leave that one alone.


AK ref SE

Seams to me we are all talking about what is in "trend".
The real question is: ...is it a fad?

The fashion style today is going to bell bottoms. The 70's are back baby.

So lets all get black pants (with BIG belts) that have bell bottoms, our shirts to have low v-necks so our manly hair on our chest shows, and dump the strings on the whistles, we'll hook them to our gold chains and call the our "bling blings".

now thats keeping it real!

Real......
 

dumb. But if that is what you want to do, be my guest. When I look at ESPN Classic, I see no belts, and shined shoes. And I am talking about games 15-20 years ago. I might agree that some things are trends, but I know of no one that is wearing those grey shirts. Maybe because the assignors do not want them. Get the point. ;)

Peace

If Beltless pants are the new way to go, what about head bands? I shave my head and the sweat is runs down my face.

Forget the head band and go for a diaper!

Nah, it's just his way of getting me back for calling him "Porky" [/B][/QUOTE]Nah, if I hadda wanted to be mean, I coulda mentioned that my haemmorrhoids are probably <b>bigger</b> than you also. Instead I'll just mellow gracefully into old age.

Ouch!

First I have to set the record straight... It depends on what uniform you wear if it has a belt or not... I am an Army Officer and my Dress Uniform (The Blue One) does not have a belt. The ugly green one does.... You can tell I like wearing that uniform cant you?

Second I vote belt less. It is the dress uniform of officiating. When in Rome and all that stuff... I have never seen a referee who has moved to the better ranks doing by wearing a belt.. There is too much deviation in belts... Belt buckles attract attention. Hey if I ref rec ball I have a pair that I wear my black belt from my BDU's it is a great belt and low profile. I use that pair of pants as my backup...

Just ask Drake about my pants splitting mid-game-

-- Of course if he would respond to my emails!!!

5 pages in less than a day. That's some topic.

I'll make it easy for ya. If you officiate in NC, you WILL wear beltless pants. It's required by the NCHSAA as is the v-neck shirt and all black shoes.

Dangerous generalizations
 

I live in the south, which means I am backward and ignorant about things in general. Oops, another generalization, perhaps not without some truth in my case. I started calling jr. high games in 1987 in a t-shirt and sweatpants.
When I decided that this was something that I wanted to do, I bought a striped shirt and some black ?wind pants, warmup
pants, whatever you call them, (the kind that go swish, swish when you run, but they're comfortable) and this, along with my beard which I have had since 1980, was my uniform until 3 years ago when I first registered. I even wore white shoes for a while. I called many games with registered officials who encouraged me to join them.
As I contemplated this, I noticed an ad for sansabelt officials pants in a rulebook and wondered, "Would I have to wear these?" (hope not) So I began to notice for the first time what the "real refs" were wearing, and belts were quite common. I would say it is close to an even split. To make a long story short (oops, too late) last week my first varsity game of the year was between two area powerhouses, one 3A, one 5A, and was referred to by some of the guys as our association's biggest game of the year. My conclusion is that the only thing holding me back here is lack of ability and I continue to work on improving this each day. If you have a dress code in your association, by all means follow it, but for me to dress a certain way because D1 or NBA officials do so would be like wearing a tie out to grease the cotton picker because the Commissioner of Agriculture wears one.

Only so many slots.
 

JAR,

Nobody said that you had to wear something just because what they wear at the NCAA or NBA level. But the standards that they have set have filtered down to us HS officials. No different in baseball when Major League Baseball Umpires started wearing the dark blue pullovers.

If you think the only thing holding you back is your ability, that is fine. You might be right. But if you have never been told, you might find out it is something else and it might not have a thing to do with the pants you wear.

I apologize if this discussion offends you, but we are just sharing an issue that many of us have faced. I for one was told to get rid of my goatee for a particular conference. If I want to continue to work in the conference, I better get rid of the facial hair. I know another official that was told he would not be hired because he did too many girls games (assignor only assigned boy's in this particular conference). So these "generalizations" can hold you back. Especially if you are just as good as other officials trying to get those few slots on a staff.

Peace

I agree that this has been, for the most part, a reasonable,
civil, discussion, with a few exceptions. (uses of absolutely, never, ever, etc.) I must admit that I have a rebellious nature, which is probably apparent on this board at times. So, if I were "threatened" with: "You can wear a belt if you want, but you will be the only one." I would continue to wear one and never look back. Also, for the record, when I became a registered official I stopped at a sporting goods store in search of "referee's pants." They didn't have any referee's pants, but they did have something called "coaches pants." I said, great, close enough and bought a pair. These pants came unhemmed, which was a hassle, but I measured them and took them to the cleaners and was all set. Apparently coaches don't have to run because in no time these "coaches pants" became frayed in the inner thigh area, a potential serious problem, no?
I have since replaced these with 2 pairs of black pants, one a laundered khaki, the other a plain pair of Farah slacks from (gasp) Wal Mart.

Rarely will you find officiating equipment at a sporting goods store. Yes, you'll find a few items but not quality products and not in much quantity.

Curious, I went to Honig's wbsite and looked for black belted pants. I found two SKUs, both of which are being discontinued. I think there's probably a statement there.

I'm also curious as to whether those that wear belted slacks work with partners who were beltless. Comments?

I do. It's a random thing. Sometimes I don't even know who my partner is until I get to the gym.

How about Dockers pants? Just arrived from the gym. One of the guys who was doing the game after mine was wearing black Dockers. And he wonders why he isn't moving up? This ain't no rookie either, he's been at it for 10-12 years.

When I moved here to Seattle I needed some new pants so I asked our past SOWB president (whom I use as a mentor although he may not claim that distincition) what was worn up here and he said beltless, no big deal, so now I have beltless. At one of our camps (SOWB) I was told (albeit in a somewhat rude and offensive way but the point was taken) to get rid of the glasses and wear contacts which I am now doing. Recently I was told that I need to trim and lose some of the paunch, (I like to use old age as a reason for it), which I am now working on. I appreciated the feedback , this does not make me someone special or better in any way but if it is important and noticeable to the refs that I respect and use as my examples, then I will follow their advice.
I personally do not care which my partners wear as long as they look and act professional. For some money may be tight. I am there to work with them not judge them, I will leave that to the assignors and evaluaters.
I hope everyone has a great season.

It's not a matter of judging anyone. The appearance of the crew makes an impression. If one official is wearing a v-neck shirt and the other is wearing a byron collared shirt, the crew has already lost one level of professionalism before they even make a call. Slacks are no different.

It's called a uniform for a reason.

I agree on the shirt. Judge was a poor choice of words. It is interesting that in soccer which I also do our uniforms must match including not only the socks, shorts and color of shirt but also the length of sleeve in our shirts.

I've been out of town for a week or so, and I'm finding reading through this quite interesting.

I've been working basketball since 1987. I've never owned a pair of belted pants. I've lived in six states and I've never seen a top official wearing a belt. As for the underwear question, most guys I work with wear compression shorts or long tights these days. No panty lines :)

I don't care what people wear, but I'll admit that when I see an official wearing belted pants it makes me a bit wary about what his on-court performance will be. Some surprise me. Most don't. Same with adjustable hat wearers in baseball and football.

I worked one varsity game with a guy in belted pants last season. Worst partner of the year who made fun of me behind my back because I pulled out a court board to do a proper pregame and told him I brought pleated and non-pleated pants so we'd match. I'm sure the belt was a coincidence. Seriously. We didn't match, though. I'm only working regularly with 2 guys this year, so I know I'll match them.

I sure hope the patent leather shoes don't become a trend either. They look sooooo fake.

Rich

Rich, I know this may start something but I agree with you totally about the shoes.

I agree, the patent shoes are overkill.

They look like they should be used for bowling or ballroom dancing or something.

There, THAT'LL start something.

:D

I guess its time for me to throw my two cents into the discussion.

Until 1993 I wore belted pants for basketball officiating. I wore belted pants up to that time not because I thought that belted and not beltless was the way to go, but because I am a belted pants type of guy. I have always worn belted pants, both pleated and non-pleated pants, and I still do, exept for officiating basketball. I changed to beltless pants in 1993, and I do not know why I did not change sooner. I have both pleated and non-pleated basketball pants in my basketball officiating wardrobe. There is no way that I would go back to wearing belted pants for officiating basketball.

As far as officiating H.S. basketball, I believe in going by the NFHS officials manual. Belted or non-belted, is what is required, and I do not think that local officials associations should be setting the rules regarding belted or non-belted pants. My opinion is that same regarding Byron collar shirts vs. v-neck shirts. A StateHSAA is the only organization that should be calling the shots regarding pants or shirts. The only thing the NFHS officials manual says about shirts is the that entire crew should wear the same type collor shirt.

I will say this about shirt collars. When the v-neck shirts came out, I did not like the look of them, and refused to wear one until I officiated in an AAU Boys' National Tournament. The instant I put one on, I wondered why I had waited so long to wear one. I just could not believe how good it felt or how good I look in one.

I still wear my Byron collar shirts for rec. league, CYO regular season games, summer leagues, and scrimmages. My collared shirts are still in good condition and I do not see why wearing them for the aforementioned type games is wrong. In fact I still carry a collared shirt with me for H.S. games because, believe it or not, there are still a few old geezers that refuse to wear a v-neck, and I am prepared to wear a shirt just like my partner.

Agreed. Our state association took this step to insure that all officials are dressed UNIFORMLY.

BTW Mark, please give us your thoughts on the elimination of the dual coverage area in the thread linked below.

http://www.officialforum.com/thread/10932

Mark, are you saying that you've had a shirt on with a collar in 2003?

I had a collared shirt on, but it was during football.

Every year, the V-neck feels weird at the beginning of the basketball season and the Byron feels weird at the beginning of football season.

Rich

Why am I not surprised!?

LOL!!!! :D Classic!

Let me reiterate that when it comes to basketball officiating I wear beltless pants, because I think that they look the best and I really prefer wearing beltless pants when I officiate basketball. I just prefer belted pants for everything else.

I wear the v-neck becuase I like how it looks and feels, but yes I have worn collared shirts this year, but not in regulation H.S., college, Special Olympics, AAU, and YBOA national tournaments. I wear collared shirts in summer league, rec. league, scrimmages, etc. My collared shirts are all Cliff-Keen and in very good shape, and I do not see why I should not get some use out of them.

NO to Belts
 

You know? One thought has gone through my mind while reading ALL of the posts on this thread: Ya'll prob'ly need to get w/ the times--go beltless! There's no real reason not to, is there? Unless, one just flat out refuses to wear beltless. It is more professional, any (NCAA) official on TV is wearing beltless, and in the NBA they wear beltless.

Nota bene: We try to wear the samein our association. Some don't have them; I guess that's ok, but I think that if we both don't wear the same, it doesn't look as good. Maybe, thought, it really doesn't matter, but if my partner has beltless, I wear beltless. However, ironically enough, if my partner doesn't have beltless, he buys beltless. :)

But, if one doesn't have beltless, we try to both wear the same.

BTW, the NFHS manual specifically specifies a V-neck shirt for basketball.

Rich

Nix the belt
 

Get a flexbelt it does a better job of keeping your pants up and your shirt in.

ok, Iam going to jump into the 90's and order a pair of beltless pants. Please give me some suggestion on what size to order. My waist is 34" do the pants run big? small? are they true to your waist size?
I do not want to order and have to keep sending them back because they dont fit.

Your best bet is to order your size and them have the altered to fit tighter if need be.

I have been really reluctant to order pants from the usual outlets because I didn't know if they'd fit right. In our last meeting they suggested we go to a certain local men's clothing store to get them. A lot of local officials get theirs there, and they give us a good price. I was able to try them on. They did the hemming and alteration for free. They were pressed and ready to pick up the day of my first game (maybe you don't want to cut it this close!). You could cut steak with the pleats on these things, they're so sharp ;) And, because I had them professionally done, they are the best fitting pair of pants I own!