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edred Fri Nov 14, 2003 12:45pm

1. A1 Dribbling along side line, ball is not in hand, steps on line, does not touch ball again, a2 picks up ball, did a1 cause a violation.

2. Do you have 30 seconds to replace an injured player if you don't call time out.

3. What happens to the 3-second count during an interrupted dribble.

4. Does the Defense have to hit the ball away to cause an interrupted dribble or can the dribbler cause it themself.

5. if a player is directed to leave the game because of an untucked shirt can it be corrected by a time out and the player return.

6. On blood or injury when do you have to call time out by so the player can return if the problem is corrected.

mick Fri Nov 14, 2003 12:55pm

Quote:

Originally posted by edred
1. A1 Dribbling along side line, ball is not in hand, steps on line, does not touch ball again, a2 picks up ball, did a1 cause a violation.

2. Do you have 30 seconds to replace an injured player if you don't call time out.

3. What happens to the 3-second count during an interrupted dribble.

4. Does the Defense have to hit the ball away to cause an interrupted dribble or can the dribbler cause it themself.

5. if a player is directed to leave the game because of an untucked shirt can it be corrected by a time out and the player return.

6. On blood or injury when do you have to call time out by so the player can return if the problem is corrected.

Other than wanting to know the answer, why do you ask these particular unrelated questions?

edred Fri Nov 14, 2003 01:08pm

I’m studying for the test next week and unclear on there areas.

Hawks Coach Fri Nov 14, 2003 01:11pm

Quote:

Originally posted by edred
1. A1 Dribbling along side line, ball is not in hand, steps on line, does not touch ball again, a2 picks up ball, did a1 cause a violation.
Depends on what you see. Did you think A1 was dribbling when she stepped on line and only abandoned the dribble because she stepped on line, or did A1 give up dribble before stepping on line?

Quote:

2. Do you have 30 seconds to replace an injured player if you don't call time out.
What is the situation - player is down and play is stopped for more than 30 sec, or player is off the floor on the bench and you aren't replacing them?

Quote:

3. What happens to the 3-second count during an interrupted dribble.
New rule as of last year is that it continues.

Quote:

4. Does the Defense have to hit the ball away to cause an interrupted dribble or can the dribbler cause it themself.
If the defense touches the ball it is not an interrupted dribble - the dribble has ended. Offense can catch ball and start another dribble. On an interrupted dribble, offense loses ball and can only catch to end dribble or continue the dribble.

Quote:

5. if a player is directed to leave the game because of an untucked shirt can it be corrected by a time out and the player return.
If the player has already left the game and the clock has not re-started, they cannot re-enter until the clock has started. so if they were directed to leave and they wer subbed for, then they cannot return until the next stoppage of play after the clock starts.

Quote:

6. On blood or injury when do you have to call time out by so the player can return if the problem is corrected.
Before you have subbed for the player - see above.

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Nevadaref Sun Nov 16, 2003 05:22pm

Quote:

Originally posted by edred
1. A1 Dribbling along side line, ball is not in hand, steps on line, does not touch ball again, a2 picks up ball, did a1 cause a violation.

If in your judgment the ball was in the control of the dribbler (does not mean touching it) when A1 stepped OOB, then it is a violation. If you feel that control had been relinquished before A1 stepped OOB, then you no longer have a dribbler, so you don't have a violation. 4-15-6d

Quote:

Originally posted by edred
2. Do you have 30 seconds to replace an injured player if you don't call time out.

YES, always! Once the player and those attending to him on the court have returned to the bench, an official should start a 30 second clock for replacing him. See 10.5.1 Situation A.

Quote:

Originally posted by edred
3. What happens to the 3-second count during an interrupted dribble.

Nothing, since there is team control during an interrupted dribble, the 3-second rule is in effect and a violation may be called. This was a rule change last year. There was even a notice on NFHS website last year that said they messed up and should have stricken the words "or interrupted dribble" from casebook play 9.7.2, shame on them for leaving those words in again this year!

Quote:

Originally posted by edred
4. Does the Defense have to hit the ball away to cause an interrupted dribble or can the dribbler cause it themself.

Look at the definitions of how a dribble ends (4-15-4d) and interrupted dribble. You will find that a bat by a defender ends a dribble, so this is not an interrupted dribble. An interrupted dribble (4-15-5) only occurs when the ball gets away from the dribbler or deflects off him.

Quote:

Originally posted by edred
5. if a player is directed to leave the game because of an untucked shirt can it be corrected by a time out and the player return.

No. The TO rule applies only to injured or bleeding players, not uniform problems. Look at 3-3-4 , 5, and 6. Article 4 says he must stay out. Article 5 makes an exception for an injured player if a TO is taken. Article 6 makes an exception for a bleeding player if a TO is taken. Since a player directed to leave the game for a uniform problem is not covered under either time-out exception, he MUST leave the game.

Quote:

Originally posted by edred
6. On blood or injury when do you have to call time out by so the player can return if the problem is corrected.

If you go by the wording of the rules the TO should, technically, be requested before the player is directed to leave the game. Strictly speaking, once the player has been directed to leave it is too late to keep him in the game with a TO. 3-3-5,6

BktBallRef Sun Nov 16, 2003 05:30pm

#5 - Once the player is directed to leave the game, the subsitution must be made before you can grant a TO.

mick Sun Nov 16, 2003 05:37pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Nevadaref
Quote:

Originally posted by edred
1. A1 Dribbling along side line, ball is not in hand, steps on line, does not touch ball again, a2 picks up ball, did a1 cause a violation.

If in your judgment the ball was in the control of the dribbler (does not mean touching it) when A1 stepped OOB, then it is a violation. If you feel that control had been relinquished before A1 stepped OOB, then you no longer have a dribbler, so you don't have a violation. 4-15-6d


NevadaRef,
We cannot rule a violation here. There is no rule for that.
A1 stepped on the line after A1 last touched the ball.
Where do I read more about *relinquished control*?
mick

BktBallRef Sun Nov 16, 2003 05:45pm

I think what NVRef is saying is that if player control exists when A1 steps OOB, it doesn't matter if he's touching the ball or not. It's an immediate violation.

mick Sun Nov 16, 2003 05:55pm

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
I think what NVRef is saying is that if player control exists when A1 steps OOB, it doesn't matter if he's touching the ball or not. It's an immediate violation.
Help me understand, Tony.
I don't know why. Doesn't make sense to me at all.
Sounds silly.
mick

Nevadaref Sun Nov 16, 2003 06:12pm

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
I think what NVRef is saying is that if player control exists when A1 steps OOB, it doesn't matter if he's touching the ball or not. It's an immediate violation.
Yes, this is exactly what I am saying.

mick Sun Nov 16, 2003 06:41pm

How can that be??!!!?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Nevadaref
Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
I think what NVRef is saying is that if player control exists when A1 steps OOB, it doesn't matter if he's touching the ball or not. It's an immediate violation.
Yes, this is exactly what I am saying.

NevadaRef,
By what rule do we know that A1 did not end his dribble?
From U.P. here it looks like he stopped dribbling because he knew he caught the line with his foot, or he dropped a pass to A2.
mick

BktBallRef Sun Nov 16, 2003 06:43pm

Quote:

Originally posted by mick
Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
I think what NVRef is saying is that if player control exists when A1 steps OOB, it doesn't matter if he's touching the ball or not. It's an immediate violation.
Help me understand, Tony.
I don't know why. Doesn't make sense to me at all.
Sounds silly.
mick

mick, I looked for the case play, which I thought was in the book but may have been on the NF website a couple of years ago. (I bet Bob J. has it saved or printed) But the play basically said that if a dribbler stepped OOB, it was a violation whether he touched the ball when he was OOB or not. In the case described, we would have to determine if the dribbler still had PC when he stepped OOB or if an interrupted dribble had already occurred.

Nevadaref Sun Nov 16, 2003 06:46pm

Re: How can that be??!!!?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by mick
Quote:

Originally posted by Nevadaref
Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
I think what NVRef is saying is that if player control exists when A1 steps OOB, it doesn't matter if he's touching the ball or not. It's an immediate violation.
Yes, this is exactly what I am saying.

NevadaRef,
By what rule do we know that A1 did not end his dribble?
From U.P. here it looks like he stopped dribbling because he knew he caught the line with his foot, or he dropped a pass to A2.
mick

It is purely a judgment call. That is why I wrote, "If in your judgment the ball was in the control of the dribbler..."

mick Sun Nov 16, 2003 06:56pm

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Quote:

Originally posted by mick
Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
I think what NVRef is saying is that if player control exists when A1 steps OOB, it doesn't matter if he's touching the ball or not. It's an immediate violation.
Help me understand, Tony.
I don't know why. Doesn't make sense to me at all.
Sounds silly.
mick

mick, I looked for the case play, which I thought was in the book but may have been on the NF website a couple of years ago. (I bet Bob J. has it saved or printed) But the play basically said that if a dribbler stepped OOB, it was a violation whether he touched the ball when he was OOB or not. In the case described, we would have to determine if the dribbler still had PC when he stepped OOB or if an interrupted dribble had already occurred.

I remember that, Tony.
No, that's totally different, if A1 continues to dribble.
That cannot apply when he never touches the ball again before someone else touches it.
The dribble ended when A2 touched the ball.
mick


mick Sun Nov 16, 2003 06:58pm

Re: Re: How can that be??!!!?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Nevadaref
Quote:

Originally posted by mick
Quote:

Originally posted by Nevadaref
Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
I think what NVRef is saying is that if player control exists when A1 steps OOB, it doesn't matter if he's touching the ball or not. It's an immediate violation.
Yes, this is exactly what I am saying.

NevadaRef,
By what rule do we know that A1 did not end his dribble?
From U.P. here it looks like he stopped dribbling because he knew he caught the line with his foot, or he dropped a pass to A2.
mick

It is purely a judgment call. That is why I wrote, "If in your judgment the ball was in the control of the dribbler..."

NevadaRef,
When A2 touched the ball, we don't guess.
The dribble is did.
mick


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