Disqualification Substitutes ...

bucky

Also, I did not see (just browsed really) if anyone submitted the below info in regards to the original post. It was taken from https://www.scribd.com/document/794019071/2024-2025-nfhs-rules-change-summary.

3-3-1c Substitution - When a player is disqualified or directed to leave the game, both teams may substitute up until it is time to put the ball in play.

RATIONALE: The current wording makes it sound like the substitutes for the other team had to have already reported before the required substitution...that is not the common practice among most all officials and not, the "spirit and intent" of that rule. This editorial change would simply clarify that IF a player has to be replaced, either because of being disqualified or some other rule infraction, that the opposing team can substitute up until it is time to restart the game.

BillyMac

bucky wrote
Also, I did not see if anyone submitted the below info in regard to the original post.

Thanks bucky. Great citation.

"Say goodnight Gracie."

Raymond

BillyMac wrote
Thanks bucky. Great citation.

"Say goodnight Gracie."

Still doesn't address what is the only real question in this conversation: can other subs come in before the disqualified player is replaced?

Bucky's citation backs up what 95% of us already do.

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Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Raymond wrote
Still doesn't address what is the only real question in this conversation: can other subs come in before the disqualified player is replaced?

Bucky's citation backs up what 95% of us already do.

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As I have stated before: Hold all of the other Substitutes (A6, A7, B6, B7, etc.) that are already waiting to enter and then bring in the Substitute (B8) for the Disqualified Player (B1) first and then 1 nanosecond (1x10**-9 seconds) after B6 has been beckoned into the Game beckon in A6, A7, B6, B7, etc.

MTD, Sr.

Raymond

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. wrote
As I have stated before: Hold all of the other Substitutes (A6, A7, B6, B7, etc.) that are already waiting to enter and then bring in the Substitute (B8) for the Disqualified Player (B1) first and then 1 nanosecond (1x10**-9 seconds) after B6 has been beckoned into the Game beckon in A6, A7, B6, B7, etc.

MTD, Sr.

I've been saying that also. But Billy was saying his state or local IAABO chapter put out something saying you can bring other subs in first.

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BillyMac

Raymond wrote
Billy was saying his state or local IAABO chapter put out something saying you can bring other subs in first.

IAABO International told us to let them all in on our 2024-25 Refresher Exam.

26) B-1 fouls A-1, committing their fifth personal foul. While waiting for B-1’s replacement, A-6 and A-7 approach the table to enter the game. The official denies their entry, stating that A-6 and A-7 must wait and enter with B-1’s replacement. Was the official correct?

IAABO answer is "No". Reference cited for this question is 3-3-1-C.

On the IAABO International level, there was an IAABO representative (who edits our IAABO Refresher Exams questions and answers) on the NFHS 2024-25 rules committee.

But not everyone belongs to IAABO, there are only 15,000 IAABO members and there are certainly a lot more basketball officials than that.

Could somebody please post a current NFHS rule citation for holding some, or all, other substitutes until the replacement it made?

BillyMac

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. wrote
As I have stated before: Hold all of the other Substitutes (A6, A7, B6, B7, etc.) that are already waiting to enter and then bring in the Substitute (B8) for the Disqualified Player (B1) first and then 1 nanosecond (1x10**-9 seconds) after B6 has been beckoned into the Game beckon in A6, A7, B6, B7, etc.

Is this a "best practice" (to which I agree) or an actual NFHS rule and/or and actual NFHS mechanic?

If so, a citation please.

bob jenkins

BillyMac wrote
Could somebody please post a current NFHS rule citation for holding some, or all, other substitutes until the replacement it made?

No. It (apparently) doesn't exist. Despite how many times you ask the question. Maybe next year.

BillyMac

BillyMac wrote
Could somebody please post a current NFHS rule citation for holding some, or all, other substitutes until the replacement it made?

bob jenkins wrote
No. It (apparently) doesn't exist.

Raymond

BillyMac wrote
IAABO International told us to let them all in on our 2024-25 Refresher Exam.

26) B-1 fouls A-1, committing their fifth personal foul. While waiting for B-1’s replacement, A-6 and A-7 approach the table to enter the game. The official denies their entry, stating that A-6 and A-7 must wait and enter with B-1’s replacement. Was the official correct?

IAABO answer is "No". Reference cited for this question is 3-3-1-C.

On the IAABO International level, there was an IAABO representative (who edits our IAABO Refresher Exams questions and answers) on the NFHS 2024-25 rules committee.

But not everyone belongs to IAABO, there are only 15,000 IAABO members and there are certainly a lot more basketball officials than that.

Could somebody please post a current NFHS rule citation for holding some, or all, other substitutes until the replacement it made?

So IAABO didn't cite a rule that explicitly states other subs can come in first? The only thing stating that is that answer key for the quiz.

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BillyMac

Raymond wrote
So IAABO didn't cite a rule that explicitly states other subs can come in first?

... nor does there appear to a NFHS citation explicitly stating that other subs cannot come in first.

Raymond wrote
The only thing stating that is that answer key for the quiz.

... and my inquiries up the ladder beginning at the local and state level and eventually to the IAABO International interpreter who sat on the NFHS 2024-25 rules committee and writes our IAABO Refresher Exam questions and answers.

Hey, it happened way back in late October, but let's remember that I used to be on Raymond's (and others) side until I got the question wrong on the exam and then, after much research and inquiry, switched teams.

Raymond

BillyMac wrote
... nor does there appear to a NFHS citation explicitly stating that other subs cannot come in first.

... and my inquiries up the ladder beginning at the local and state level and eventually to the IAABO International interpreter who sat on the NFHS 2024-25 rules committee and writes our IAABO Refresher Exam questions and answers.

Hey, it happened way back in late October, but let's remember that I used to be on Raymond's (and others) side until I got the question wrong on the exam and then, after much research and inquiry, switched teams.

I think eventually you'll be on the wrong side of history once somebody at the NFHS or IAABO actually thinks this thing through.

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BillyMac

Raymond wrote
I think eventually you'll be on the wrong side of history once somebody at the NFHS or IAABO actually thinks this thing through.

I certainly hope so. It was so easy back in the good old days. For over forty years we were locally told to not allow any substitutions, nor grant any timeout requests, until after the disqualified player had been replaced.

This allowed us to take care of business, the notifications to both the head coach and to the disqualified player, and then the timely replacement of the disqualified player, with no other distractions.

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