Step Out Of Bounds ...

Valley Man

Thanks .. I should not have tried to answer shutting my computer down and leaving

I had just skimmed the casebook, but as you can see even rebounding a player cannot go out of bounds intentionally and be the first to touch the ball

bob jenkins

BillyMac wrote
If a player sneaks off the court (maybe trying to blend in with his bench)

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BillyMac wrote
So it such a player is the first to touch the ball after returning inbounds, this is a violation.

But if such a player is not the first to touch the ball after returning inbounds, it's legal.

Not correct.

The violation for being the first to touch happens when a player leaves trying to avoid a screen, or making a too-wide cut along the baseline, etc -- the stuff that happens ten times a season.

It's still a T to leave to hide among the bench, or to go out one door and enter another or ... -- the stuff that happens less than once per officiating career.

BillyMac

bob jenkins wrote
It's still a T to leave to hide among the bench, or to go out one door and enter another or ..., the stuff that happens less than once per officiating career.

It is a technical foul for a player to purposely or deceitfully delay returning after legally being out of bounds.

I usually think of this rule involving an inbounder deceitfully delaying his return inbounds to gain some type of advantage, but other "odd" things can occur that can also be penalized with a technical foul.

BillyMac

9-3-3: Establishes that a player may step out of bounds without penalty unless they are the first player to touch the ball after returning to the court or if they left the court to avoid a violation.

SNIPERBBB wrote
... now has to know when the pass was released from an area where normally they shouldn't be looking or might not even be able to see at all.

A2 runs out of bounds around a double screen and comes back onto the court and catches a pass from A1 ...

A) A1 was holding (touching) the ball after A2 reentered the playing court.

B) A1's pass was already on the way (released) after A2 reentered the playing court.

Legal in A, illegal in B?

First to touch?

bob jenkins

BillyMac wrote
9-3-3: Establishes that a player may step out of bounds without penalty unless they are the first player to touch the ball after returning to the court or if they left the court to avoid a violation.

A2 runs out of bounds around a double screen and comes back onto the court and catches a pass from A1 ...

A) A1 was holding(touching) the ball after A2 reentered the playing court.

B) A1's pass was already on the way (released) after A2 reentered the playing court.

Legal in A, illegal in B?

First to touch?

Both a violation.

SNIPERBBB

bob jenkins wrote
Both a violation.

The way I understood the interpreters presentation the other day A would be legal.

BillyMac

BillyMac wrote
9-3-3: Establishes that a player may step out of bounds without penalty unless they are the first player to touch the ball after returning to the court or if they left the court to avoid a violation.

A2 runs out of bounds around a double screen and comes back onto the court and catches a pass from A1 ... A1 was holding (touching) the ball after A2 reentered the playing court

Wouldn't A2 be the second to touch the ball after returning to the court?

Wouldn't A1 be the first to touch the ball the ball after A2 returned to the court?

Raymond

BillyMac wrote
Wouldn't A2 be the second to touch the ball after returning to the court?

Wouldn't A1 be the first to touch the ball the ball after A2 returned to the court?

Under your logic the rule would only apply if A2 came inbounds when no other player has PC.

The point of that particular element of the rule is to prevent A1 passing to A2 after A2 returns inbounds.

BillyMac

Raymond wrote
Under your logic the rule would only apply if A2 came inbounds when no other player has PC.

The point of that particular element of the rule is to prevent A1 passing to A2 after A2 returns inbounds.

Gotta agree with you but that's not what the rule states.

This certainly would be illegal.

BillyMac wrote
A2 runs out of bounds around a double screen and comes back onto the court and catches a pass from A1 ... A1's pass was already on the way (released) after A2 reentered the playing court.

9-3-3: Establishes that a player may step out of bounds without penalty unless they are the first player to touch the ball after returning to the court ...

I've got lot of questions regarding the wording of this new rule.

Hopefully some new casebook plays (I haven't gotten my new casebook yet), or new annual interpretations (due soon) will clear this up.

JRutledge

SNIPERBBB wrote
The way I understood the interpreters predeythr other day A would be legal.

I am not sure what you mean by "interpreters predeythr" but in A it is legal if the never throw the ball to the player or throw it to another player first.

Peace

JRutledge

Raymond wrote
Under your logic the rule would only apply if A2 came inbounds when no other player has PC.

The point of that particular element of the rule is to prevent A1 passing to A2 after A2 returns inbounds.

Or to prevent a player to go out of bounds and get a loose ball. Not as common but both situations fit under this rule.

Peace

BillyMac

JRutledge wrote
in A it is legal if the never throw the ball to the player or throw it to another player first.

Agree.

BillyMac wrote
A2 runs out of bounds around a double screen and comes back onto the court and catches a pass from A1 ... A) A1 was holding (touching) the ball after A2 reentered the playing court.

Who was the first to touch the ball after A2 reentered the playing court?

A1 was the first to touch the ball after A2 reentered the playing court (he was touching it after A2 reentered the playing court before he passed it to A2).

9-3-3: A player shall not step out of bounds under the player’s own volition and then become the first player to touch the ball after returning to the playing court ...

Perhaps we should refer to A1 as "Player Zero"?

Is there an ordinal number for zero?

JRutledge

BillyMac wrote
Agree.

Who was the first to touch the ball after A2 reentered the playing court?

A1 was the first to touch the ball after A2 reentered the playing court (he was touching it after A2 reentered the playing court before he passed it to A2).

9-3-3: A player shall not step out of bounds under the player’s own volition and then become the first player to touch the ball after returning to the playing court ...

Perhaps we should refer to A1 as "Player Zero"?

Is there an ordinal number for zero?

A1 was not the first to touch the ball. They had the ball already.

Peace

BillyMac

JRutledge wrote
A1 was not the first to touch the ball. They had the ball already.

Thanks JRutledge.

I really like your simple, yet highly rational and thoughtful, explanation.

Hopefully we'll get some new casebook plays, or new annual interpretations (due soon), to clear this up.

JRutledge

BillyMac wrote
Thanks JRutledge.

I really like your simple, yet highly rational and thoughtful, explanation.

Hopefully we'll get some new casebook plays, or new annual interpretations (due soon), to clear this up.

Peace

Raymond

In my 18 years of officiating men's college basketball, I may have made that call 5 times. I wouldn't obsess about it.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

JRutledge

Raymond wrote
In my 18 years of officiating men's college basketball, I may have made that call 5 times. I wouldn't obsess about it.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

I had my first scrimmage last night of the season and I had an offensive player run out of bounds on his own and come back in, it was not a violation because they passed the ball to someone else.

Peace

bob jenkins

SNIPERBBB wrote
The way I understood the interpreters presentation the other day A would be legal.

Either your interpreter or your understanding of what was said is incorrect.

SNIPERBBB

bob jenkins wrote
Either your interpreter or your understanding of what was said is incorrect.

Do we have a zero person now? How long does A2 have to be in bounds with A1 holding the ball for him to A2 to legally touch the pass?

Raymond

SNIPERBBB wrote
Do we have a zero person now? How long does A2 have to be in bounds with A1 holding the ball for him to A2 to legally touch the pass?

Until the shot clock runs out? Oh wait...

I could swear I remember a time when NCAA-Men's would have the Lead stick out their arm similar to a delayed violation on free throws.

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