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-   -   State Level Shenanigans (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/105796-state-level-shenanigans.html)

Valley Man Tue Sep 27, 2022 08:56am

State Level Shenanigans
 
The Virginia High School League has decided (during an officials shortage and crisis) to re-instate the in person MANDATORY Rules Clinic. They have selected just 8 dates at sites all at least 2 hours from each other. Officials must attend or they cannot work.

If one positive from COVID is evident, it was that we can do virtual options and get more participation for required rules clinic viewing.

What a joke. I bet the state loses 10-15% MORE officials that have to work on the date near their home and don't want to drive 2 hours one way to attend another clinic.

Why not ease back into in person and offer a virtual option for those that cannot attend with a fee?? If you want to make money .. THERE YA GO

Raymond Tue Sep 27, 2022 09:11am

There are 2 sites in my area that are about 40 minutes apart, one on the Peninsula, one on the Southside.

JRutledge Tue Sep 27, 2022 09:50am

Honestly, my state got rid of in-person meetings as a requirement over 15 years ago. I wish they would go back to the in-person meetings honestly. It was nice to ask questions and hear a person respond.

Now what the state did here was have meetings in multiple areas where you often were not that far away. But when gas prices spiked after 9-11 this became the model. I think so much is lost just doing everything virtually. But that is my take. I would agree that 2-hour drives are not ideal for these things.

Peace

Valley Man Tue Sep 27, 2022 12:49pm

Great for you Raymond .. I assume Churchland and Jamestown

Out in the Western part of the state you have Abington .. 2 hours to Roanoke .. 2 hours to Harrisonburg

I like the in person as well, but one date or you are screwed is not cool.

JRutledge Tue Sep 27, 2022 12:59pm

You did not say it was one day. My state never did one-day rules meetings for the entire state. And in many cases, there were multiple options to attend different sites. But one day is a stretch.

Peace

Valley Man Tue Sep 27, 2022 01:03pm

Sorry they are all on different days

I meant officials basically have one date in their area .. if not they have to travel.

Raymond Tue Sep 27, 2022 01:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valley Man (Post 1048834)
Great for you Raymond .. I assume Churchland and Jamestown

Out in the Western part of the state you have Abington .. 2 hours to Roanoke .. 2 hours to Harrisonburg

I like the in person as well, but one date or you are screwed is not cool.

I really don't see a need for in-person if they plan on doing things they way they used to. There was really not much interaction, just Joyce reading off the slides, no different than her narrating the slides on-line.

Luckily, since I'm now retired, I don't have to attend. :D (Don't know why they chose Jamestown, since it's not even centrally located for the folks in James City County/Williamsburg...LOL; plus the roads to the school are no fun at night)

BillyMac Tue Sep 27, 2022 04:52pm

Mandatory In-Person Meeting ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Valley Man (Post 1048827)
The Virginia High School League has decided to re-instate the in person mandatory Rules Clinic. Officials must attend or they cannot work.

Same thing here in Connecticut. To be eligible to receive game assignments for the upcoming season, one must attend an in-person "new rules" meeting. Last two seasons (COVID) were Zoom meetings.

Good news is that we have six Connecticut meetings to choose from, on five different dates. As we approach these mandatory meeting dates, we will probably be offered to attend meetings just over the state borders in Massachusetts and Rhode Island, as we have in the past. And, of course, Connecticut is a small state, so no long drives.

And game assignment penalties for missing this mandatory "new rules" meeting are taken quite seriously here in my little corner of Connecticut. Had a buddy miss the mandatory "new rules" meeting because it slipped his mind. Just dumb forgot. By the time he figured it out, all the "new rules" meetings dates throughout Connecticut and nearby states had passed. Too late to attend. After paying his dues for the year, he was assigned zero games. Ouch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1048829)
I wish they would go back to the in-person meetings honestly. It was nice to ask questions and hear a person respond.

Agree, but keep in mind that I live in a very small state with lots of available meetings to fulfill my mandatory requirement. I'm also retired from my day job and have few (empty nest) family responsibilities at home. Plus, I'm really getting sick of Zoom meetings. Zoom Christmas, Zoom Thanksgiving, and Zoom birthdays, were horrible, as was Zoom church.

JRutledge Wed Sep 28, 2022 01:31am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1048839)
Agree, but keep in mind that I live in a very small state with lots of available meetings to fulfill my mandatory requirement. I'm also retired from my day job and have few (empty nest) family responsibilities at home. Plus, I'm really getting sick of Zoom meetings. Zoom Christmas, Zoom Thanksgiving, and Zoom birthdays, were horrible, as was Zoom church.

My comment was not about your state. I was wishing that here. And the meetings are not on Zoom, they have recorded meetings presentation with constant clicks of the mouse to go to the next section. And often they put things in the meetings that mean nothing to officials like advertisements or things about filing schedules or other administrative things officials have nothing to do with. Many Rules Interpreters would just barely mention those things because the officials in the room could give a damn.

Peace

Lcubed48 Wed Sep 28, 2022 07:21am

Fyi
 
My local board here in Virginia had its first meeting of the year on Sunday past. That question was asked. The answer given was that VHSL wanted to introduce the new executive director to the entire state. Who knows?

BillyMac Wed Sep 28, 2022 09:18am

Mandatory In-Person Meetings ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1048842)
My comment was not about your state. I was wishing that here.

I was agreeing with you that, like you, I also like in-person meetings.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1048829)
I wish they would go back to the in-person meetings honestly. It was nice to ask questions and hear a person respond.

However, I can certainly understand why others would dislike such mandatory in-person meetings. Long drives. Inflexible day job work schedule. Family responsibilities. I have none of these concerns.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1048842)
... recorded meetings presentation with constant clicks of the mouse to go to the next section. And often they put things in the meetings that mean nothing to officials like advertisements or things about filing schedules or other administrative things officials have nothing to do with.

This does not sound very appealing. I certainly understand why you would prefer to go back to the in-person meetings.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Wed Sep 28, 2022 02:25pm

It was sometime after the 2004-05 school year that the OhioHSAA went from mandatory In-person State Rules Meetings to mandatory Online State Rules Meetings.

The OhioHSAA is divided into six Districts and for Basketball there would be approximately six to ten State Meetings in each District held in a three week period starting in late October. These meetings lasted from 75 to 90 minutes in length and both Head Coaches and Officials were in attendance with many of the meetings having over 300 people in attendance. The HCs and many Officials did not want to be there especially, especially if the nearest meeting one wanted to attend was on a Monday and everyone wanted to be at home or a bar watching Monday Night Football, :p!

HCs never asked questions and those Officials who wanted to ask questions, many times did not get complete answers because of time constraints.

The nice thing about the Online Meetings is that one can complete when it at a time that is convenient for one and the Meeting can be paused and returned to at a later time to complete it. Also, one can save the URL and review the Meeting later in the season if one desires.

If one does have a question one can email our State Rules Interpreter; of course, I do not email him because I have had to correct him a few times on interpretations that he should know and now he will not return my email, LOL! And Mark, Jr. is more qualified to be the State Rules Interpreter and Mark would rather answer Baseball and Softball questions, but I digress, :D.

The biggest drawback to online meetings is that online meetings meant a mileage deduction and dinner and drinks deduction while watching MNF at the sports bar after the meeting as long as at least one basketball situation was discussed, ;).

MTD, Sr.

BillyMac Wed Sep 28, 2022 02:38pm

Will Not Return My Email ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. (Post 1048865)
... one can email our State Rules Interpreter; of course, I do not email him because I have had to correct him a few times on interpretations that he should know and now he will not return my email ...

Sadly, been there, done that.

SNIPERBBB Wed Sep 28, 2022 03:12pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. (Post 1048865)
It was sometime after the 2004-05 school year that the OhioHSAA went from mandatory In-person State Rules Meetings to mandatory Online State Rules Meetings.

The OhioHSAA is divided into six Districts and for Basketball there would be approximately six to ten State Meetings in each District held in a three week period starting in late October. These meetings lasted from 75 to 90 minutes in length and both Head Coaches and Officials were in attendance with many of the meetings having over 300 people in attendance. The HCs and many Officials did not want to be there especially, especially if the nearest meeting one wanted to attend was on a Monday and everyone wanted to be at home or a bar watching Monday Night Football, :p!

HCs never asked questions and those Officials who wanted to ask questions, many times did not get complete answers because of time constraints.

The nice thing about the Online Meetings is that one can complete when it at a time that is convenient for one and the Meeting can be paused and returned to at a later time to complete it. Also, one can save the URL and review the Meeting later in the season if one desires.

If one does have a question one can email our State Rules Interpreter; of course, I do not email him because I have had to correct him a few times on interpretations that he should know and now he will not return my email, LOL! And Mark, Jr. is more qualified to be the State Rules Interpreter and Mark would rather answer Baseball and Softball questions, but I digress, :D.

The biggest drawback to online meetings is that online meetings meant a mileage deduction and dinner and drinks deduction while watching MNF at the sports bar after the meeting as long as at least one basketball situation was discussed, ;).

MTD, Sr.

The baseball/softball rule meetinfs weee worse because you never knew if it was going to sbow the day of, while you were there, on the way home Seemed like those scenarios happened avout every year/other year.

For the most part they were wastes of time unless you needed some gear from Flemings or the other suppliers that would be setup there. Basketball was basically a meet and greet
Haven't heard if the interpreter meeting will be online or in person this be year or not. I imagine its online because usually we've gotten an email for it now.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Wed Sep 28, 2022 04:43pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB (Post 1048870)
The baseball/softball rule meetinfs weee worse because you never knew if it was going to sbow the day of, while you were there, on the way home Seemed like those scenarios happened avout every year/other year.

For the most part they were wastes of time unless you needed some gear from Flemings or the other suppliers that would be setup there. Basketball was basically a meet and greet
Haven't heard if the interpreter meeting will be online or in person this be year or not. I imagine its online because usually we've gotten an email for it now.


The OhioHSAA has not sent out an email with the Basketball State Rules Meeting information yet, but the date is already listed on MyOHSAA. The starting date is 09:00amEDT on Wed., Oct. 12th and the last date before the $50 fine kicks in is 11:59pmEST, Fri., Nov. 18th. And the last date period is 11:59pmEST, Jan. 23, 2023.

MTD, Sr.

SNIPERBBB Wed Sep 28, 2022 06:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. (Post 1048873)
The OhioHSAA has not sent out an email with the Basketball State Rules Meeting information yet, but the date is already listed on MyOHSAA. The starting date is 09:00amEDT on Wed., Oct. 12th and the last date before the $50 fine kicks in is 11:59pmEST, Fri., Nov. 18th. And the last date period is 11:59pmEST, Jan. 23, 2023.

MTD, Sr.

Interpreters meeting not the State rules meeting. Went digging in my email and they sent it so early I forgot about it. Interpreters meeting js in a couple weeks and on-line

BillyMac Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:36am

Sent So Early He Forgot About It ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB (Post 1048875)
Went digging in my email and they sent it so early I forgot about it.

That what happened to my friend. Cost him thousands of dollars.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1048839)
Had a buddy miss the mandatory "new rules" meeting because it slipped his mind. Just dumb forgot. By the time he figured it out, all the "new rules" meetings dates throughout Connecticut and nearby states had passed. Too late to attend. After paying his dues for the year, he was assigned zero games. Ouch.


chapmaja Tue Oct 04, 2022 10:26pm

Michigan used to have in person meetings, but they were not required for more than advanced post-season assignments. They then went to online rules meetings, but only for post-season eligibility, with a couple in person meetings as well. Now the meetings are all online meetings and anyone working a high school assignment (Varsity or SubVarsity), must attend the meeting or they can't work.

As an assigner this is a pain the behind, because I try having assignments done well before the meetings are put online. If an official is assigned, but doesn't do the meeting, it becomes more work for me to replace them with another official. With that said, I do feel it has made the officiating a little bit better overall, but it is still easy to do other work while "watching" the online meeting.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Wed Oct 05, 2022 11:38am

Quote:

Originally Posted by chapmaja (Post 1048918)
Michigan used to have in person meetings, but they were not required for more than advanced post-season assignments. They then went to online rules meetings, but only for post-season eligibility, with a couple in person meetings as well. Now the meetings are all online meetings and anyone working a high school assignment (Varsity or SubVarsity), must attend the meeting or they can't work.

As an assigner this is a pain the behind, because I try having assignments done well before the meetings are put online. If an official is assigned, but doesn't do the meeting, it becomes more work for me to replace them with another official. With that said, I do feel it has made the officiating a little bit better overall, but it is still easy to do other work while "watching" the online meeting.


I do not know if the California Basketball Officials Association has changed its requirements but when I was a member of the San Gabriel Valley Unit (1982-83 and 1983-84) we received our assignments in September BUT to be eligible to officiate one had to attend x number (I do not remember of meetings without going to the attic.) of meetings before the season started AND pass with at least an 85% a 200 true/false question (closed book) exam which was not given to that last scheduled meeting, with no retakes!

MTD, Sr.

BillyMac Wed Oct 05, 2022 01:12pm

Refresher Exam ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. (Post 1048921)
... pass with at least an 85% a 200 question true/false exam ...

Members of my local IAABO board have to take (and often pass) the open book IAABO Refresher Exam every year to get game assignments.

Early in my career, members individually took the open book exam at home and then were encouraged to attend an "informal" study group (often with pizza and beer) to compare answers. I often attended two different groups, my hometown group, and my Catholic middle school group. While such groups were officially encouraged, it seems that there was often one in each group that had access to the answer sheet, which some might consider to be cheating. Once the internet and email came along this "cheating" became much more common, and literally everybody always passed the test.

Knowing how much "cheating" was occurring, we tried something different. Dozens of board sponsored "official" study groups were formed, the leader had the answer sheet, and we went over all the questions and answers together in each group. One had to individually take the open book test and attend (sign in sheets) one of these study groups to get game assignments. The was no requirement to pass the test. Not attending a study group meant no game assignments.

Very recently we've tried a new model. Take the open book test individually at home, send one's answers to our local board website, test is corrected, and if one passes the test, one gets game assignments.

Fail the test and one has to attend a special "remedial" meeting to go over all the question and answers. Attend that "remedial" meeting and one gets game assignments.

Fail the test and not attend the "remedial" meeting means that one doesn't get any game assignments.

Certainly not a difficult path to get game assignments.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Wed Oct 05, 2022 07:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1048923)
Members of my local IAABO board have to take (and often pass) the open book IAABO Refresher Exam every year to get game assignments.

Early in my career, members were encouraged to individually take the open book exam at home and then attend an "informal" study group (often with pizza and beer) to compare answers. I often attended two different groups, my hometown group, and my Catholic middle school group. While such groups were officially encouraged, it seems that there was often one in each group that had access to the answer sheet, which some might consider to be cheating. Once the internet and email came along this "cheating" became much more common, and literally everybody always passed the test.

Knowing how much "cheating" was occurring, we tried something different. Dozens of board sponsored "official" study groups were formed, the leader had the answer sheet, and we went over all the questions and answers together in each group. One had to individually take the open book test and attend (sign in sheets) one of these study groups to get game assignments. The was no requirement to pass the test. Not attending a study group meant no game assignments.

Very recently we've tried a new model. Take the open book test individually at home, send one's answers to our local board website, test is corrected, and if one passes the test, one gets game assignments.

Fail the test and one has to attend a special "remedial" meeting to go over all the question and answers. Attend that "remedial" meeting and one gets game assignments.

Fail the test and not attend the "remedial" meeting means that one doesn't get any game assignments.

Certainly not a difficult path to get game assignments.


Billy:

I edited my initial response to elaborate on the CBOA Exam: It was a closed book exam.

MTD, Sr.

BillyMac Thu Oct 06, 2022 12:07pm

Cheating ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. (Post 1048927)
... the CBOA Exam: It was a closed book exam.

Still a possibility of cheating. Just look at the recent chess cheating scandal. That took cheating to a whole (or hole) new level, but I won't go into the details.

https://www.breitbart.com/sports/202...g-anal-device/

Zoochy Fri Oct 07, 2022 11:03am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1048934)
Still a possibility of cheating. Just look at the recent chess cheating scandal. That took cheating to a whole (or hole) new level, but I won't go into the details.

https://www.breitbart.com/sports/202...g-anal-device/

This event took place in my home town of St. Louis and this international event failed to make the local news.

BillyMac Fri Oct 07, 2022 02:09pm

It's Raining Men (The Weather Girls, 1982) …
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoochy (Post 1048942)
This event took place in my home town of St. Louis and this international event failed to make the local news.

I would have loved to have seen the local television sports-jacketed sports guy report this as the weather girl giggles in the background.


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