Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1048790)

4.19.3 SITUATION E: A1 is dribbling in the frontcourt. A3 and B4 are in the lane. (a) A3 throws B4 to the floor; (b) B4 throws A3 to the floor. RULING: In (a), illegal and in (b), intentional foul due to excessive contact while the ball is live. (4-19-3d)

I see only one difference between these two fouls. One, by A3, is a team control foul, and the other, by B3, isn't a team control foul.

Since both are described in the same exact manner, player throws his opponent to the floor, why is only one deemed intentional?

While a team is in control, can player on that team can be charged with an intentional foul followed by two free throws and ball as the consequence?

Or, does one never shoot free throws for a foul against player who's team is in control, even if the foul is deemed to be intentional, or flagrant?

Why am I confused by such a seemingly simple casebook play?

And where are my reading glasses?

Originally Posted by ilyazhito (Post 1048841)

The ruling as described in (a) is wrong, because a team control foul is a common foul committed by the team in control of the ball. Because throwing an opponent to the floor is an act that rises above the level of a common foul, the intentional (or flagrant) foul penalty will supersede the common foul penalty and allow B4 to attempt free throws followed by possession for Team B.

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1048830)

In 22-23, the ruling has been changed to "In (a) and (b), intentional foul due to excessive contact while the ball is live.

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1048844)

I agree with you 99.9% that ruling (a) is "wrong".

But technically, ruling (a) isn't "wrong". The (a) ruling states that situation (a) is "illegal", which it most certainly is.

If ruling (a) is "wrong", it's "wrong" because, in combination with ruling (b), ruling (a) is confusing, misleading, incomplete, and ambiguous, but it's not "wrong" because situation (a) is indeed "illegal"

Thank God the caseplay has been changed.

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1048847)

IT WAS WRONG!!!!

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1048790)

4.19.3 SITUATION E: A1 is dribbling in the frontcourt. A3 and B4 are in the lane. (a) A3 throws B4 to the floor; (b) B4 throws A3 to the floor. RULING: In (a), illegal and in (b), intentional foul due to excessive contact while the ball is live. (4-19-3d)

I see only one difference between these two fouls. One, by A3, is a team control foul, and the other, by B3, isn't a team control foul.

Since both are described in the same exact manner, player throws his opponent to the floor, why is only one deemed intentional?

While a team is in control, can player on that team can be charged with an intentional foul followed by two free throws and ball as the consequence?

Or, does one never shoot free throws for a foul against player who's team is in control, even if the foul is deemed to be intentional, or flagrant?

Why am I confused by such a seemingly simple casebook play?

And where are my reading glasses?

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1048830)

That's the 21-22 case play, and I'm pretty sure we discussed it before.

In 22-23, the ruling has been changed to "In (a) and (b), intentional foul due to excessive contact while the ball is live."

I hope that can end the discussion.

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1048855)

I knew this was too much to hope for.

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1048855)

I hope that can end the discussion.

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1048855)

I knew this was too much to hope for.

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. (Post 1048856)

I read Billy's original comment and then immediately posted my comment concerning the correction in the 2022-23 Casebook.

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1048857)

I blame ilyazhito, I posted my comment in response to ilyazhito's post.

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. (Post 1048859)

All three of us are getting old ...

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1048862)

I don't know him personally, but I get the feeling that ilyazhito is a "young grasshopper".

Note: Young'uns can look up the 1972 television series "Kung Fu" on the Google.