2022-23 NFHS Shot Clock Guidelines State Association Adoption ...
 

Just spotted this on the NFHS basketball website, it may have been there since August 4, 2022.

2022-23 NFHS Shot Clock Guidelines State Association Adoption

Use the shot clock to administer the 10-second backcourt count (9-8). The 10-second count shall begin when the ball touches, or is legally touched by, a player on the court, in the backcourt on a throw-in or on player control on a rebound or jump ball.

The NFHS still hasn’t reconciled the shot clock guideline with the actual rule.

9-8: A player must not be, nor may his/her team be, in continuous control of the ball which is in his/her backcourt for 10 seconds.

It’s one thing for the NFHS to leave the reconciliation up to individual states, but to just ignore the disconnect and not even broach it is very disappointing.

If it is a state-adopted rule, then what needs to be reconciled? You only have to worry about it if your state says they are using it. At this moment, neither of my states have even said they would use the shot clock.

This is listed for the shot clock if adopted. If you are not using the shot clock there is nothing to worry about.

Peace

Consistency ...
 

I understand JRutledge's view to allow all of this to be an individual state decision.

But it would be nice if the NFHS could broach the disconnect for what "should" or "could" happen within each shot clock adopting state regarding:

- subvarsity (junior varsity, freshman, middle school) games where a shot clock may not be used by state decision.

- games where a shot clock is supposed to be used but, due to a malfunction, doesn't work, and isn't used for an entire game.

- less than 35 seconds left in the period in a shot clock game when shot clock is turned off.

The NFHS gives us this:

The official shall use a silent, visible 10 second count when there is no shot clock visible.

High school basketball would be best served nationally if the NFHS would either change the ten second rule, or the shot clock guideline, so that they "match", pick either touch, or control, and make it a consistent law of the land for both shot clock games and non-shot clock games, interlevel, intrastate, or interstate.

I believe that the NCAA has done this, going with touch. Why not the same in high school?

At absolute minimum, the NFHS should publicly recognize that that a disconnect does exist and that states that adopt a shot clock need to decide for themselves what they want to do regarding the three situations above.

Full Text ...
 

2022-23 NFHS Shot Clock Guidelines State Association Adoption

https://www.nfhs.org/media/5989150/2...guidelines.pdf

In every shot clock game that had a malfunction with the shot clock (and extremely rare), we did not play without the issue being resolved. So I would doubt it would be any different than if the clock went out and could not be restored, you might not play the game anymore. Those things just do not "go out." So your concern to me is kind of overreaching if you think that is going to be a common occurrence. Not trying to disagree with you that more information would be nice, but since this is only about what happens with a shot clock not seeing the big deal right now. Most people will only work in one state where they have a shot clock or they will not in other cases. And if that is such an issue, your state representatives can make that clear.

Peace

More Information ...
 

Like JRutledge, I would also like "more information" from the NFHS, but it's been two years and "not a peep", so I'm not "holding my breath".

I only hope that individual state "representatives" figure out in advance that there's a disconnect and address it themselves.

For example an individual shot clock state may decide to go with "touch" in varsity games with a shot clock, but go with "control" for a freshman or middle school games where the state decides not to use shot clocks.

Another individual shot clock state may decide to go with "touch" for all games, at all levels, with, or without shot clocks.

Of course the states that don't use any shot clocks will still have to go with "control".

Stupid NFHS.

I've Got A Dog In This Fight ...
 

My lack of confidence in individual states to "handle" things is due to what's been going on here in Connecticut.

Connecticut public and Catholic schools all use 100% NFHS rules, with no shot clocks.

Connecticut private prep schools use a wacky hybrid version of NFHS and NCAA rules, including a shot clock (and other rules), and we're advised (recently) to use the shot clock for the ten second count (no visible count), but we use the NFHS ten second rule (control).

How can we use the ten second rule shot clock "mechanics" if we don't use the NCAA ten second rule (touch)?

I have yet to have anyone in authority, from the officials side, or the prep school side, answer that question.

I've had private prep schools shot clock timekeepers start the shot clock during the dead ball period after a basket, probably instructed to so by their coach or athletic director. Shows how little private prep school coaches and athletics directors care about shot clock rules.

I've had fans and coaches yell "ten seconds" based on only the shot clock, not understanding the rule differences.

Nobody cares, and nobody will care care until the rule disconnect creates a controversy at the end of an important game. Hasn't happened yet, but only for the grace of God.

Instead of being proactive, were going to be reactive. Not a good place to be.

And that's why I'm such a big worrier, worrywart, and fuss-budget about this topic.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

They said what the rule was for the shot clock application. If you do not have a shot clock, you use the rule that is already stated in the book. KISS!!!!

Peace

Keep It Simple ...
 

JRutledge: Did you have to put the second "S" in there?

Great post. Sounds very logical and reasonable.

Would still like to hear that from my local and/or state interpreter (trainers) if we ever decide to go with a shot clock in Connecticut (not a big shot clock push yet from Connecticut scholastic basketball stake holders). Hopefully it will be handled better than our recent Connecticut private prep school shot clock ten second fiasco (see above post).

States' Rights (Tenth Amendment) ...
 

What "they said" and what trickles down to each individual shot clock state may not be exactly the same. Remember, the NFHS shot clock guidelines are only "recommended guidelines" that may vary from one shot clock state to another. It appears that the NFHS has given a lot of power to each individual state to set up their own shot clock rules (which could include the ten second rule).

Kiss
 

Here's my first "BillyMac" post:

KISS, an acronym for keep it simple stupid, is a design principle noted by the U.S. Navy in 1960.[1][2] The KISS principle states that most systems work best if they are kept simple rather than made complicated; therefore, simplicity should be a key goal in design, and unnecessary complexity should be avoided. The phrase has been associated with aircraft engineer Kelly Johnson.[3] The term "KISS principle" was in popular use by 1970.[4] Variations on the phrase include: "Keep it simple, silly", "keep it short and simple", "keep it short and sweet", "keep it simple and straightforward",[5] "keep it small and simple", "keep it simple, soldier",[6] "keep it simple, sailor", or "keep it sweet and simple".

Occam's Razor ...
 

Thanks Lcubed48. I didn't think that JRutledge would call me "stupid".

As a scientist, I prefer Occam's Razor, the problem-solving principle that "entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity", in other words, with competing explanations, the simpler one is preferred.

http://i1.wp.com/www.activeresponse....?fit=640%2C553

NCAA rules (men's and women's) interpret team control in this situation as beginning with the throw-in, so a touch inbounds by either team does not change team control. The legal touch inbounds is important because it starts the game (if previously stopped) and shot clocks.

I agree, but then NFHS editing is not the best. They constantly screw up on rules tests by making questions with no correct answer, or else the wrong answer marked as correct, and the rulebooks often feature editorial errors. This is not surprising.

Simplest Solution ...
 

In my warped mind, this (below) is the simplest solution:

The mantra of Structural Design Engineers: Keep It Simple!! Stupid!!

MTD, Sr.

LOL!!

MTD, Sr.

Some people use the last "S" as "silly."

Peace

Silly Billy ...
 

Guilty as charged.

I generally don't find that to be the case. More often, I find that officials that think there is no correct answer don't understand the underlying rules.

I have seen people get points back on rules tests because questions were badly written. The explanation was usually that the wrong answer was marked as "correct" on the test, but there was at least one occasion on a football test where a question had no correct answer.

When we took the NF tests, there were constant mistakes or thrown out questions every year. Usually, they used wording that did not mesh with the rule or it was confusing. Even now one of my states gives out the NF test and there are 2 or three questions thrown out because of the way they worded the question.

And do not get me started on rules changes where often there is no consideration to other rules that affect the change. We had a football rules interpreter that would say famously, "It takes the NF 3 years to get a rule right." He was often right because they would forget the ramifications of a change without seemingly catching a simple change that influenced other languages in the rules. Just like when they went to team control fouls and did not clear up the language for how that influenced backcourt in a better way. And it was the case in other sports like the Horsecollar rule and I remember in baseball the Force Play Slide Rule took a few years to get "right."

Peace

Slip Through ...
 

Bingo.

I've "officially" suggested a few rule changes to the NFHS. The NFHS always wants to know the impact of the change on other rules, as well as casebook plays, but often these "impacts" slip through the process.

I do not see this as an impact that you are talking about. This is rather minor if you ask me. If you are not using a shot clock, nothing changes. If you use a shot clock, there are likely to be procedures to handle those. I do not see the big deal. I really do not.

Other situation, sure.

Peace

They're Wat'cha Call Rules Experts ...
 

I was agreeing with JRutledge (who appears to be agreeing with ilyazhito) about NFHS rules (and more specifically rule changes) in general (not specifically about shot clocks), also agreeing with JRutledge's football rules interpreter who said, "It takes the NF 3 years to get a rule right."

Yeah, I know that the NFHS deals with a lot of different sports (and other activities) and a lot of different rules, rule changes, and interpretations (not easy tasks to align everything), but that's their main job (isn't it), and I think that they could do just a little better than sometimes taking years to iron out all the bugs in a rule change, or publishing exams that sometimes have incorrect, or nonsensical, answers (we occasionally have similar problems with IAABO exams, but it's rare).

They're not reinventing the wheel, just making a few improvements every year.

Not expecting perfect, just a little better.

Knowing that something was going to be presented to tens of thousands of officials, coaches, players, athletic directors, etc., the NFHS should be damn sure that editors check, double check, and triple check before publishing something.

Back when I was teaching, I made sure that my exams had fair and easy to understand questions and non-ambiguous and correct answers.

And if I made a rare mistake, I fixed it for the next year.

I expected my lessons, lectures, demonstrations, handouts, labs, exams, quizzes, etc. to be as near perfect as possible, even in regard to spelling and grammar.

During my student teaching, I carelessly spelled oxygen as "oxagen" (I had used the short-hand O2 in my lesson plan notes, not spelling it out) as I was diagramming the Oxygen Carbon Dioxide Cycle on the blackboard.

After the lesson, my master teacher pointed the error out to me.

I was extremely embarrassed, and vowed to myself that something like that would never ever happen again in my teaching career.

This happened forty-eight years ago, yet I remember it vividly as if it happened yesterday.

Thank you Mr. Spargo.

I'll wait for the 2022-23 MPSSAA clinic to see how the NFHS shot clock guidelines will affect MD operations. DC already has a non-visible backcourt count based on the shot clock. Both states use a 30-second shot clock, as opposed to the NFHS standard 35-second shot clock.

For those in IL:

5. The Board approved a recommendation to approve the experimental use of the Shot Clock in IHSA Girls & Boys Basketball for regular-season tournaments and shootouts during the 2022-23 school year. All tournaments seeking to use the shot clock for regular-season tournaments and shootouts must apply for approval from the IHSA. Information regarding the approval process will be distributed to member schools in mid-September.
IHSA Executive Director Craig Anderson:
“The IHSA’s survey of administrators and coaches last year made it very clear that our membership wasn’t ready to implement the shot clock in basketball at this juncture. Our priority now shifts to gathering feedback and data on the impact that the shot clock creates on game play, game management, and school finances. We look forward to working with our schools to pilot usage of the shot clock in some tournaments and shootouts this winter. We will release information to our schools on how to apply to use the shot clock in their tournament or shootout in mid-September.”

I am going to assume they are going to follow the guidelines given by the National Federation on the website that have been announced to adjudicate these rules. They often do not totally reinvent the wheel when it comes to things like this. So we will probably use the shot clock as the ten-second count guideline similar to college rules. That is just an educated guess. But we will see soon.

Peace