The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #16 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 02, 2022, 04:02pm
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 7,953
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
2019-20 Basketball Rules Interpretations: SITUATION 2: A1 is wearing a ribbon to control her hair. RULING: Illegal. Ribbons are considered decorations and the athlete should not be allowed to enter the contest while wearing a ribbon in the hair. (3-5-4e)

It's there in black and white but I still disagree.

One can legally tie prewrap in a knot to use as a headband, but one can't legally tie a piece of soft cloth (ribbon) in a knot to use as a hair control devise?

2019-20 Basketball Rules Interpretations: SITUATION 1: A1 is waiting at the table to substitute into the game. The official recognizes the substitute is wearing pre-wrap tied in the back as a headband. RULING: The substitute is permitted to enter the game wearing the pre-wrap as a headband provided it meets all the guidelines for a headband. (3-5-4b)

Below: Legal in my game, used to control hair. Yeah, I know that I'm a rebel and thus, part of the problem.



Below: Illegal in my game, decorative (ornamental).



Yeah, it's subjective, maybe that's why the NFHS outlawed ribbons?

If ribbons are outlawed, only outlaws will have ribbons.


The real problem per ribbons is that they were originally legal in NFHS, NCAA Men's, and NCAA Women's, AND then the NFHS made them illegal but the NCAA has not. Auburn University men's team in playing in a Summer tournament (played using FIBA Rules) in Israel right now (I watched from the start until the middle of the 2nd QT when I fell asleep with my pre-lunch nap, LOL!) and FIBA does not prohibit ribbons and one of the Auburn players was wearing navy blue ribbons on the end of his dreads to match Auburn's uniform.

MTD, Sr.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Ohio High School Athletic Association
Toledo, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 02, 2022, 04:06pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 21,971
That Would Be A Real Hoot ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
FIBA does not prohibit ribbons and one of the Auburn players was wearing navy blue ribbons on the end of his dreads to match Auburn's uniform.
Hey Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Please post a photo of you wearing ribbons in your hair.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 02, 2022, 05:01pm
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 7,953
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Hey Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Please post a photo of you wearing ribbons in your hair.


I would if I had hair, LOL!

MTD, Sr.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Ohio High School Athletic Association
Toledo, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 02, 2022, 05:45pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,195
For the record, this is not a girl problem. I work boys basketball exclusively at the high school and college level and this comes up often in boy's or men's basketball. Happen at a camp where this was a possible issue at a camp in April and that was a college camp. A clinician discussed that a boy's hair might be an issue based on what he had in it and stated, "That has to be determined by someone higher than my pay grade, but something should be addressed if it is legal." It was my game at the time and we allowed it or better yet did not make an issue because it was not very clear. I think he would have been OK based on the location of some clamps this kid had in his hair. A few weeks later the NF came out with their rules.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 02, 2022, 07:44pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 21,971
Goose And Gander ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
For the record, this is not a girl problem.
Disagree. It is a girl problem. And it's also a boy problem.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #21 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 03, 2022, 10:34am
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 14,515
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Disagree. It is a girl problem. And it's also a boy problem.
It's a "they" problem
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR
Reply With Quote
  #22 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 03, 2022, 11:27am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 17,761
Based on all the posts here over the past several years, it seems to mostly be a BM problem.
Reply With Quote
  #23 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 03, 2022, 11:29am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 12,209
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
Based on all the posts here over the past several years, it seems to mostly be a BM problem.
We have found the answer!
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Reply With Quote
  #24 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 03, 2022, 12:21pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 21,971
Better Colleagues ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
Based on all the posts here over the past several years, it seems to mostly be a BM problem.
As much as I hate to say it, you guys must be working with much better colleagues than I am.

Even back when I was a full time varsity official, equipment issues were often a problem.

If I had a dollar for every time I heard, "But the referee on Tuesday night didn't say anything about ...", I could afford to buy that retirement villa in Tuscany I've been eyeing.

In my middle school games, it's much worse, I seldom have a game with zero equipment issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
We have found the answer!
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Aug 03, 2022 at 01:30pm.
Reply With Quote
  #25 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 03, 2022, 12:53pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,195
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
Based on all the posts here over the past several years, it seems to mostly be a BM problem.
Pretty much. Like the pun. LOL!!!

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #26 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 03, 2022, 12:59pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,195
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
As much as I hate to say it, you guys must be working with much better colleagues than I am.

Even back when I was a full time varsity official, equipment issues were often a problem.

If I had a dollar for every time I heard, "But the referee on Tuesday night didn't say anything about ...", I could afford to buy that retirement villa in Tuscany I've been eyeing.

In my middle school games, it's much worse, I seldom have a game with no equipment issues.
Well this is a new rule, we have not even made it to the meetings yet or with the literature. Not worried about something that is not even addressed. And certainly do not care what is happening in a middle school game for sure. When high school starts and the process to take the exams and get approved to work games for the year, then I will worry about it then. We have a few months for this to work itself out anyway. Football season is starting and we just got some clarification on a couple of rules that were announced before basketball rules changes. Maybe, wait until we get closer and there is more communication on this. The NF PowerPoint is not out yet for basketball and a lot of information is likely to come out. But again this was addressed in Referee Magazine and pictures were used to show what was legal and illegal and it was not the pictures you used. Be patient and at this point, who cares what we are doing until it is fully addressed?

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #27 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 03, 2022, 01:18pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 21,971
Local Problem ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Well this is a new rule, we have not even made it to the meetings yet ... wait until we get closer and there is more communication on this. The NF PowerPoint is not out yet for basketball and a lot of information is likely to come out ... Be patient ...
Agree. I was just reacting to something that just came out from IAABO. I'm sure that the combined IAABO/NFHS PowerPoint that we will get in a few months will be more explanatory.

My problem is more local, having little to do with the NFHS, or even IAABO. I don't have a crystal ball, but I've been to enough local rodeos to know what's coming. We've got many local guys who are great play callers, many are state tournament level officials (deservedly so), but don't give a damn about equipment, making those of us that do care jobs much more difficult.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
"But the referee on Tuesday night didn't say anything about ..."
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Aug 03, 2022 at 02:05pm.
Reply With Quote
  #28 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 03, 2022, 04:08pm
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 7,953
I remember a boy's JV game Mark, Jr., and I had years ago. It was the first night of the boys' season in the OhioHSAA (The first Friday in December.). I am watching the Visitors warm up and on player has a metal splint on his index finger (I do not recall which hand). I inform him that the splint is not legal and that we will not make him take the splint but as long as he is wearing it he cannot play.

The next thing you know, he and his HC come to Mark and me. The first words out his mouth was: "The officials in our last game let him play." And my response was: "You mean he was also wearing the splint when your team played their last game of last year's season last February?" That ended the discussion. The Player removed the splint and the school's trainer taped his finger together with his middle finger.

MTD, Sr.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Ohio High School Athletic Association
Toledo, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #29 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 03, 2022, 05:18pm
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 7,953
2022-23 NFHS Basketball Rules: Comments on the Rules

The NFHS Basketball Rules Committee issued 2022-23 Comments on the Rules which addressed only one thing: R3-S5-A4d. It can be found at https://nfhs.org/sports-resource-con...rules-2022-23/ and says:

3-5-4d – Allowing hair-control devices and adornments such as, but not limited to, barrettes, bobby pins and beads creates inclusivity of hair styles while maintaining that the risk of injury to the athlete, teammates and opponents should not be compromised. Hair adornments must be securely fastened close to the head and not increase risk to the athletes, teammates or opponents. It remains the responsibility of the head coach to ensure players are legally equipped before the competition begins.


As one can see it really clears things up, !

MTD, Sr.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Ohio High School Athletic Association
Toledo, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #30 (permalink)  
Old Thu Aug 04, 2022, 10:18am
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 21,971
Take The Ribbon From Your Hair (Kris Kristofferson, 1970) ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
3-5-4d: Allowing hair-control devices and adornments such as, but not limited to, barrettes, bobby pins and beads creates inclusivity of hair styles while maintaining that the risk of injury to the athlete, teammates and opponents should not be compromised. Hair adornments must be securely fastened close to the head and not increase risk to the athletes, teammates or opponents. It remains the responsibility of the head coach to ensure players are legally equipped before the competition begins.
Hair adornments are now legal.

Does this mean that soft cloth ribbons, securely fastened close to the head, are now legal?

__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Fri Aug 05, 2022 at 12:10pm.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Softball Player Forced To Cut Hair Beads ... BillyMac Basketball 27 Wed Jun 02, 2021 03:37pm
Beads in Hair cropduster Basketball 13 Thu Nov 30, 2006 01:37pm
what is the ruling on beads in the hair? Damian Basketball 12 Tue May 04, 2004 09:57am
Beads on Players Triangle NC ref Basketball 12 Sun Jan 04, 2004 10:17pm
Sweat Bands, Hair Beads eckert Basketball 8 Sat Feb 01, 2003 10:03am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:10pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1