4-15-4-B: help request

[Kansas Ref]

I know everyone on this Forum understand the specific details of the violation cited in this rule [4-15-4-B] and call such violations when they occur; however, in the event of a ball handler using several consecutive "extra-ordinarily high" dribbles {imagine that the ball bounces above the player's shoulder} that does NOT involve a 'coming to rest' action then theoretically this should be a simple 'play on' episode, no?
Yet, whenever this high dribble occurs I have sometimes seen my partner(s) calling a "carry" [and of course the unlearned fans will always yell carrying and sometimes you can see them stand up in their seats and demonstrate a bona fide "carrying the ball" demonstration as they voice their displeasure when I don't call this a violation--which ironically (and humorously) their demonstrative action does not match the actual dribble that occurred]. Additionally, I have seen my partners sometimes succumb and [mistakenly] call a "carrying" violation here.
If any of you have dealt with this or a similar scenario, how do you deal with the issue of partners who call this ghost violation?

[WhistlesAndStripes]

I have a conversation about it with them after the game, in the locker room and educate them. I ask them to tell me how the rule was violated by pulling out the book and reading the rule. If they want to continuously defend the call after that, I let them know they are just wrong and then I go block them on arbiter.


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[BillyMac]

A very high dribble will always get a reaction from the fans, it is a very often misunderstood rule:

Palming, or carrying, is when the ball comes to rest in the player's hand, and the player either travels with the ball, or illegally dribbles a second time. There is no restriction as to how high a player may bounce the ball, provided the ball does not come to rest in a player’s hand. Steps taken during a dribble are not traveling, including several that are sometimes taken when a high dribble takes place. It is not possible for a player to travel during a dribble.

[Kansas Ref]

Thanks Whistles and BillyMac for the sharing of your insight. And another thing that happens in relation to this is: when a player actually does an "inadvertent" high dribble, then I've observed the player to: pause, look at me, and just shake his head b/c he's upset with himself, then either drop the ball (thinking that it's a turnover) or make a motion towards me and hand me the ball---after which I pop my whistle and call "travelling" on him. This high-dribble is something of a violation that is acknowledged and penalized when playing 'pick up" basketball games. So, I guess I can see how the "high dribble" became conflated with "carrying".

[Nevadaref]

Don’t concern yourself with what your partners call. That is entirely up to them. Let them explain their calls to coaches, observers, and assignors. Just focus on your own decisions.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref

I know everyone on this Forum understand the specific details of the violation cited in this rule [4-15-4-B] and call such violations when they occur; however, in the event of a ball handler using several consecutive "extra-ordinarily high" dribbles {imagine that the ball bounces above the player's shoulder} that does NOT involve a 'coming to rest' action then theoretically this should be a simple 'play on' episode, no?
Yet, whenever this high dribble occurs I have sometimes seen my partner(s) calling a "carry" [and of course the unlearned fans will always yell carrying and sometimes you can see them stand up in their seats and demonstrate a bona fide "carrying the ball" demonstration as they voice their displeasure when I don't call this a violation--which ironically (and humorously) their demonstrative action does not match the actual dribble that occurred]. Additionally, I have seen my partners sometimes succumb and [mistakenly] call a "carrying" violation here.
If any of you have dealt with this or a similar scenario, how do you deal with the issue of partners who call this ghost violation?

#1, know the rule, and pregame it if it's commonly called wrong in your area.
#2, use more commas in your posts, and avoid those [ and ] symbols. I actually had to search for where those were on my keyboard. Parenteses symbols will do. I guess if you only use commas.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Freddy

... avoid those [ and ] symbols. I actually had to search for where those were on my keyboard.

You mean brackets?

Must be a new fangled symbol. I know that they weren't on the keyboard of my manual typewriter when I was in Miss Dench's ninth grade typing class. She would have us type to the beat of music she played on a record player.

Typewriter? Record player? Gotta love the late 1960's.

[hoopologist]

As a HS coach I mostly lurk here trying to gain a better understanding of rules, interpretations, and perspectives.

I literally can't wait for my rule book to arrive every summer and I read it cover to cover several times before the season. I have no expectation of a call on a dribble unless the hand is inverted during the dribble and the ball appears at rest. Dribble it as high as you'd like. Just keep the hand on top.

No one ON the court (officials, players, coaches, the table) should be listening to anyone spectating, period. They know nothing of the operation of the contest aside from what Bill Walton has told them on TV. Act accordingly.

[Kansas Ref]

Originally Posted by hoopologist

As a HS coach I mostly lurk here trying to gain a better understanding of rules, interpretations, and perspectives.

I literally can't wait for my rule book to arrive every summer and I read it cover to cover several times before the season. I have no expectation of a call on a dribble unless the hand is inverted during the dribble and the ball appears at rest. Dribble it as high as you'd like. Just keep the hand on top.

*{Good understanding}

No one ON the court (officials, players, coaches, the table) should be listening to anyone spectating, period. They know nothing of the operation of the contest aside from what Bill Walton has told them on TV. Act accordingly.

*Too funny!

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by hoopologist

No one ON the court (officials, players, coaches, the table) should be listening to anyone spectating, period.

And so I thought, until ...

Two years ago. Girls varsity. Small magnet school. Held ball. I look at the arrow on the table and it says Red. I think it's White (I've got a whistle for direction in my pocket, as we're encouraged to do here in my little corner of Connecticut, but can't remember if I properly switched pockets the last time I should have), so I'm not sure. I give my partner a questioning look (no whistle, just a look) and he (who also has a whistle in his pocket) points Red, but with a questioning look on his face. It's my call, I figure two out of three ain't bad, and go with Red.

And then I hear a confident voice coming from the crowd, a parent, saying loudly, but not yelling, White. 99% of the time I ignore such a comment from the peanut gallery, but it just sounded so confident. My partner and I approached the table and with help of the table crew figure out with 100% certainty that it was indeed White, and I changed my call.

[hoopologist]

Every rule has an exception - :-) says the guy not at all enforcing any rules anywhere except his practice.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

And so I thought, until ...

Two years ago. Girls varsity. Small magnet school. Held ball. I look at the arrow on the table and it says Red. I think it's White (I've got a whistle for direction in my pocket, as we're encouraged to do here in my little corner of Connecticut, but can't remember if I properly switched pockets the last time I should have), so I'm not sure. I give my partner a questioning look (no whistle, just a look) and he (who also has a whistle in his pocket) points Red, but with a questioning look on his face. It's my call, I figure two out of three ain't bad, and go with Red.

And then I hear a confident voice coming from the crowd, a parent, saying loudly, but not yelling, White. 99% of the time I ignore such a comment from the peanut gallery, but it just sounded so confident. My partner and I approached the table and with help of the table crew figure out with 100% certainty that it was indeed White, and I changed my call.