The Most Misunderstood NFHS Basketball Rules ...
 

Now that the season is starting, for the young'uns:

The Most Misunderstood NFHS Basketball Rules

It is important to know the intent and purpose of a rule so that it may be intelligently applied in each play situation. A player of a team should not be permitted an advantage which is not intended by a rule. Neither should play be permitted to develop which may lead to placing a player at a disadvantage not intended by a rule.

A player cannot touch the ball, ring, or net while the ball is on the ring or within the basket. A player cannot touch the ball if it is in the imaginary cylinder above the ring. These are examples of basket interference. It is legal to touch the ring or the net if the ball is above the ring and not touching the ring, even if the ball is in the imaginary cylinder above the ring. It is legal to hang on the ring if a player is avoiding an injury to himself or herself or another player.

The backboard has nothing to do with goaltending. Goaltending is when a player touches the ball during a try, or tap, while it is in its downward flight, entirely above the basket ring level, outside the imaginary cylinder above the ring, and has the possibility of entering the basket. On most layups, the ball is going up immediately after it contacts the backboard, and in this situation it is legal for a defender to touch the ball if it is not in the imaginary cylinder above the basket. Slapping or striking the backboard is neither basket interference, nor is it goaltending, and points cannot be awarded. A player who intentionally or deliberately slaps or strikes a backboard, during a tap, or a try, so forcefully that it cannot be ignored because it is an attempt to draw attention to the player, or a means of venting frustration, may be assessed a technical foul. When a player simply attempts to block a shot, and accidentally or incidentally slaps the backboard, regardless how much it causes the backboard to shake or vibrate, it is neither a violation, nor is it a technical foul.

The front, top, sides, and bottom of the backboard are all in play. The ball cannot legally pass over a rectangular backboard from either direction. The back of a backboard is out of bounds, as well as the supporting structures.

The traveling rule is one of the most misunderstood rules in basketball. To start a dribble, the ball must be released before the pivot foot is lifted. On a pass, or a shot, the pivot foot may be lifted, but may not return to the floor before the ball is released. A player may slide on the floor while trying to secure a loose ball until that player’s momentum stops. At that point that player cannot attempt to get up, or rollover. A player securing a ball while on the floor cannot attempt to stand up unless that player starts a dribble. A player in this situation may also pass, shoot, or request a timeout. If the player is flat on his, or her, back, that player may sit up without violating.

A player must be holding the ball (with rare exception) in order to travel. A player can't travel while dribbling, while tapping the ball, or while fumbling it. During a fumble the player is not in control of the ball, and therefore, cannot be called for a traveling violation. A fumble is the accidental loss of player control when the ball is unintentionally dropped, or slips from a player’s grasp. After a player has ended a dribble and fumbled the ball, that player may recover the ball without violating. Any steps taken during the recovery of a fumble are not traveling, regardless of how far the ball goes, and the amount of advantage that is gained. It is always legal to recover a fumble, even at the end of a dribble; however that player cannot begin a new dribble, which would be an illegal dribble violation. A player who fumbles the ball when receiving a pass may legally start a dribble

The shooter can retrieve one’s own airball if the official considers it to be a shot attempt, or if the ball hits the backboard. It is not a violation for that player to start another dribble at that point.

If a defender puts a hand(s) on a ball controlled by airborne shooter (or passer), such that the airborne player is unable to release the ball, that player has not traveled, it is a held ball. If, in another similar situation, the airborne player loses control of the ball because of the touch, then this is simply a blocked shot. It is not a violation for that player to start a dribble at that point. If, in a similar situation, the defender simply touches the ball, and the airborne player chooses not to release the ball, and returns to the floor holding the ball, it’s a traveling violation.

When an airborne player tries for goal (or passes), sees that the try (or pass) will be blocked, purposely drops the ball, and touches the ball after it hits the floor, that player has traveled by starting a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor. If an airborne shooter is preparing to release the ball on a shot attempt, and instead of releasing the ball on the try fumbles the ball (while still in the air), drops the ball, and then returns to the floor and secures possession of the ball, it’s a traveling violation.

Palming, or carrying, is when the ball comes to rest in the dribbler's hand, and the player either travels with the ball, or illegally dribbles a second time. There is no restriction as to how high a player may bounce the ball, provided the dribbler’s hand stays on top of the ball, and the ball does not come to rest in the dribbler’s hand. Steps taken during a dribble are not traveling, including several that are sometimes taken when a high dribble takes place. It is not possible for a player to travel during a dribble. It is not a dribble when a player stands still and holds the ball and touches it to the floor once or more than once.

After a violation, the ball is awarded to the opponents for a throwin from an out of bounds spot nearest the violation. This is especially true for a backcourt violation, where the ball may not necessarily be put in play at the division line, but, rather, is always put back in play at the spot nearest the violation.

A player inbounding the ball may step on, but not over the line and onto the court. The traveling rule and pivot foot restrictions are not in effect for the inbounder. During a designated spot throwin, the player inbounding the ball must keep one foot on, or over, the three foot wide designated spot. An inbounding player is allowed to jump, or move one, or both feet. A player inbounding the ball may move backward as far as the five second time limit, or space allows. If player moves outside the three foot wide designated spot, it is a throwin violation, not traveling. In gymnasiums with limited space outside the sidelines, and endlines, a defensive player may be asked to step back no more than three feet. A player inbounding the ball may dribble the ball on the out of bounds area prior to making a throwin. The illegal dribble rule is not in effect during a throwin.

After a goal, or awarded goal, the team not credited with the score shall make the throwin from any point outside the end line. A team retains this run the endline privilege if a timeout is called during the dead ball period after the goal. After a goal, or awarded goal, any player of the team may make a direct throwin, or may pass the ball along the end line to a teammate outside the boundary line.

The defender may not break the boundary plane during a throwin until the ball has been released on a throwin pass. If the defender breaks the boundary plane during a throwin before the ball has been released on a throwin pass, the defender’s team will receive a team delay warning, or if the team has already been warned for one of the four delay situations, this action would result in a team technical foul. If the defender contacts the ball after breaking the boundary plane, it is a player technical foul and a team delay warning will be recorded. If the defender breaks the boundary plane, and fouls the inbounding player, it is an intentional personal foul, and a team delay warning will be recorded. It is an intentional personal foul if the defender fouls the inbounding player, even without breaking the boundary plane, however, in this specific case, there is no delay of game warning because the defender did not break the boundary plane.

The inbounding player does not have a plane restriction, but has five seconds to release the ball, and it must come directly onto the court. The ball shall not enter the basket before it is touched by another player, nor may it become lodged between the backboard and ring or come to rest on the flange before it is touched by another player. Following throwin violations, the ball is awarded to the opponents for a throwin at the original throwin spot. The ball can always be passed into the backcourt during a throwin. This situation is not a backcourt violation.

If a player's momentum carries the player off the court, that player can be the first player to touch the ball after returning inbounds. That player must not have left the court voluntarily, and must immediately return inbounds. That player must have something in, and nothing out. It is not necessary to have both feet back inbounds. It is a violation for a player to intentionally leave the court for an unauthorized reason.

Part II ...
 

To be out of bounds, a player must touch the floor, or some object, on or outside a boundary line. People are not considered to be objects, so if a player inadvertently touches someone who is out of bounds (another player, a photographer, a coach, an official, etc.), without gaining an advantage, is not considered an out of bounds violation. A dribbler has committed a violation if they step on or outside a boundary, even though the dribbler is not touching the ball while they are out of bounds. Out-of-bounds violations do not apply to players involved in interrupted dribbles.

A moving screen is not in and of itself a foul; illegal contact must occur for a foul to be called. If a blind screen is set on a stationary defender, the defender must be given one normal step to change direction, and attempt to avoid contact. If a screen is set on a moving defender, the defender gets a minimum of one step, and a maximum of two steps, depending on the speed, and distance of the defender. Players setting screens must have both feet inbounds.

It is legal use of hands to accidentally hit the hand of the opponent when it is in contact with the ball. This includes holding, dribbling, passing, or even during a shot attempt. Striking a ball handler, or a shooter, on that player's hand (in contact with the ball) that is incidental to an attempt to play the ball is not a foul.

Reaching in is not a foul. There must be illegal contact to have a foul. The mere act of reaching in is, by itself, nothing. If illegal contact does occur, it’s probably a holding foul, an illegal use of hands foul, or a hand check foul. When a player, in order to stop the clock, does not make a legitimate play for the ball, holds, pushes, or grabs away from the ball, or uses undue roughness, the foul is an intentional foul.

Over the back is not a foul. There must be illegal contact to have a foul. A taller player may often be able to get a rebound over a shorter player, even if the shorter player has good rebounding position. If the shorter player is displaced, then a pushing foul must be called. A rebounding player, with an inside position, while boxing out, is not allowed to push back, or displace, an opponent, which is a pushing foul.

A defensive player does not have to remain stationary to take a charge. A defender may turn away, or duck, to absorb contact, provided the defender has already established legal guarding position, which is both feet on the playing court, and facing the opponent. The defender can always move backwards, or sideways, to maintain a legal guarding position, and may even have one or both feet off the floor when contact occurs. That player may legally rise vertically. If the defender is moving forward, then the contact is caused by the defender, which is a blocking foul. If the opponent with the ball is airborne, the defender must have obtained legal position before the opponent left the floor.

The mere fact that contact occurs does not constitute a foul. Incidental contact is contact with an opponent which is permitted and does not constitute a foul. Contact, which occurs unintentionally in an effort by an opponent to reach a loose ball, or contact which may result when opponents are in equally favorable positions to perform normal defensive, or offensive moves, should not be considered illegal, even though the contact may be severe. Contact which does not hinder an opponent from participating in normal defensive, or offensive, movements should be considered incidental.

A ten second backcourt count continues when the defense (without gaining control) deflects, or bats, the ball in the backcourt. When a dribbler is advancing the ball into the frontcourt, the ball maintains backcourt status until both feet, and the ball, touch entirely in the frontcourt.

The four elements for having a backcourt violation are: there must be team control (and initial player control when coming from a throwin); the ball must have achieved frontcourt status; the team in team control must be the last to touch the ball before it goes into the backcourt; that same team must be the first to touch after the ball has been in the backcourt.

During a throwin, even under a team’s own basket, if the throwin is deflected, tipped, or batted, by an offensive player in the frontcourt to an offensive player in the backcourt; or after a missed field goal attempt, or a missed foul shot attempt, if the ball is deflected, tipped, or batted, by an offensive player in the frontcourt to an offensive player in the backcourt; these are not backcourt violations.

During a throwin, or jump ball, any player; or a defensive player, in making a steal; may legally jump from his, or her, frontcourt, secure control of the ball with both feet off the floor, and return to the floor with one, or both, feet in the backcourt. The player may make a normal landing, and it makes no difference whether the first foot down is in the frontcourt, or the backcourt. These three situations are not backcourt violations.

The closely guarded rule is in effect in frontcourt only, when a defender is within six feet of the ball handler. Up to three separate five second counts may occur on the same ball handler: holding, dribbling, and holding. The count continues even if defenders switch. The five second count ends when a dribbler gets his, or her, head, and shoulders, ahead of the defender.

The intent of the three second rule is to not allow an offensive player in the lane to gain an advantage. There is no three second count between the release of a shot, and the control of a offensive rebound, at which time a new count starts. There is no three second count during a throwin. There is no three second count while the ball is in the backcourt. There is a three second count during an interrupted dribble. There is a three second count while an offensive player has one foot in the lane, and one foot outside of the lane, and the three second count continues if this player lifts the foot in the lane so that neither foot is touching inside the lane. To stop the count this player must have both feet touch the court outside of the lane. It’s a violation for a player to step out of bounds in an attempt to avoid a three second violation. Allowance shall be made for a player who, having been in the lane area for less than three seconds, dribbles, or moves immediately to try for goal.

The head coach may request, and be granted, a timeout if his, or her, player is holding, or dribbling, the ball; or during a dead ball period. A player saving the ball in the air can ask for, and be granted, a timeout even if that player is going out of bounds. The key is whether, or not, the player has control of the ball.

A player who has been injured such that the coach or any other bench personnel (trainer) is beckoned and comes onto the court shall be directed to leave the game, unless a timeout is requested by, and granted to, the team and the situation can be corrected by the end of the timeout. If an official stops the clock to check on an injured player, and the coach or bench personnel do not come onto the court, and if the player is ready to play immediately, that player may remain in the game and no timeouts need to be requested, and granted.

On free throws, there is a maximum of two offensive players, and four defensive players, in the six marked lane spaces. The defense must be in the first marked lane spaces, above the neutral zone marks, on all free throws. The offense must not occupy the first marked lane spaces, above the neutral zone marks. For free throws when there are no rebounders in the marked lane spaces (technical fouls, intentional fouls), the nine nonshooters shall remain behind the free throw line extended, and behind the three point arc.

Players in marked lane spaces must not move into the lane until the ball is released by the free throw shooter. The shooter, and the players behind the three point arc, must wait until the ball hits the ring, before entering the lane, or penetrating the three point arc. On release of the ball by the free thrower, the defender boxing out the free thrower shall not cross the free throw line until the ball contacts the ring. In addition, the free throw shooter must cause the ball to enter the basket, or touch the ring, before the free throw ends. During a free throw, no opponent, including bench personnel, may distract the free thrower.

A held ball occurs when opponents have their hands so firmly on the ball that control cannot be obtained without undue roughness. It is a violation for a player to excessively swing his, or her, arms, or elbows, even without contacting an opponent. Action of arms, and elbows, resulting from total body movements as in pivoting or moving to prevent a held ball, or loss of control, shall not be considered excessive.

Kicking the ball is intentionally striking it with any part of the leg, or foot. An unintentionally kicked ball is never illegal, regardless of how far the ball goes, and who recovers it.

A player who has been replaced, or directed to leave the game, shall not reenter (with rare exceptions) before the next opportunity to substitute after the clock has been started properly following his, or her, replacement. In other words, a player who has been replaced must sit a tick of the clock; however, a player doesn’t have to play a tick of the clock.

Part III ...
 

Players may not participate or even warm up while wearing jewelry. Religious medals, or medical alert medals, are not considered jewelry. A religious medal must be taped, and worn under the uniform. A medical alert medal must be taped, and may be visible.

Undershirts must be similar in color to the uniform jersey, and shall not have frayed edges. Undershirt sleeves shall be the same length. Note that this rule does not require all players to wear the same length sleeves on their undershirts, but each individual player must have sleeves the same length on the undershirt when worn. Players are required to tuck in jerseys that are designed to be tucked inside the shorts.

Headbands, wristbands, arm sleeves, knee sleeves, lower leg sleeves, compression shorts, and tights, shall be the solid color black, white, beige, or the predominant color of the jersey. All of these items shall be the same color as worn by each player. Additionally, all of these items shall be the same color for all members of a team who choose to wear them. Anything worn on the arm, and/or the leg (except a knee brace), is defined as a sleeve, including knee pads, and elbow pads, and must be the solid color black, white, beige, or the predominant color of the uniform jersey. Only a single headband may be worn on the head, and headbands are not allowed to have extensions or tails. Only one moisture absorbing wristband is permitted on each wrist, and each wristband must be worn on the arm below the elbow. One visible manufacturer’s logo or school logo is permitted on wristbands, headband, compression shorts, undershirts, and arm and leg compression sleeves. The size must be limited to 2¼ square inches.

Rubber, cloth, or elastic bands, of any color, may be used to control hair. Such soft hair control devices (e.g., ponytail holders) are under no color restrictions. Ribbons are considered decorations and are illegal if used as a hair control device. Hard hair control devices including, but not limited to, beads, barrettes, and bobby pins, of any color, are prohibited. Headbands go around the entire head (and must be the solid color black, white, beige, or the predominant color of the uniform jersey), while soft hair control devices only go around hair and are under no color restrictions.

Officials are not required to explain judgment calls, but they may explain some calls if approached by the head coach in a respectful manner. Officials have been instructed to call technical fouls for profanity, unsporting acts, excessive complaints, or verbal abuse.

Officials are on the court to be the only unbiased arbiters of the game. Officials are not concerned with who wins, or loses, but only fairness, and safety. Everyone else in that gym cares about winning, and therefore, cannot look at the game objectively. Players commit fouls, and violations; officials view those infractions, judge the action, and then apply the rules of the game to what they had observed. The rules then determine the penalty.

Revised 7/9/21

Background Story ...
 

High school basketball rules are often misunderstood by coaches, players, parents, and fans. Officiate basketball games long enough and officials will hear dozens of erroneous comments from players, coaches, parents, and fans, and think to themselves, “I wish I could stop the game and explain the real rule to them".

For example. A player is dribbling the ball in the backcourt and a fan is yelling, "Three seconds". Or, a player is inbounding the ball and a parent yells, "He's stepping on the boundary line". Officials often want to sound the whistle, stop the game, and say, "There can't be a three second violation until the ball is in the frontcourt", or, "The player can step on the line, but not over the line onto the court".

Knowing these rule misconceptions in advance can help basketball officials understand where players, coaches, parents, and fans, are “coming from”. Rookie basketball officials can benefit from this article by clearing up any misconceptions that they might have had coming into basketball officiating after years of being a player, or a fan.

Here are the “real” rules often misunderstood by coaches, players, parents, and fans, and, yes, basketball officials:

I developed this list over the past forty years, officiating thousands of basketball games. I first used this list back in 2005, for a presentation that I was making to a college level basketball coaching class after I was asked to give a lecture on the most misunderstood basketball rules. The list has evolved many times over the years.

Up The Down Staircase (1967) ...
 

I struggle with the wording, and legal rationales, of this paragraph every year, often thinking about discarding it completely.

Any suggestions for improvement?

Is The Correct ...
 

I'm not even sure if this (below) is 100% correct? I'm not sure where I got this interpretation from, maybe an IAABO Make the Call video?

Can't one always legally pick up a fumble? Why does being airborne complicate this, if it actually does complicate this?

Try the traveling rules for the answer to your question.

One Can Always Pick Up A Fumble ???
 

Because the airborne shooter had picked up his pivot foot?

So the old adage that one can always legally pick up a fumble is "just" an old adage and not fully rule based and isn't always true?

Deletion ...
 

Note: Unintentionally added for clarity.

I'm deleting the above statement, that was very recent addition to the list, and not fully peer reviewed.

While it may be true, if I can't explain it to a coach, I'm probably not calling it, and I'm definitively not putting this statement in writing for a list that's supposed to clear up misunderstood rules, not make them even more misunderstood.

Even a fool is thought wise if he keeps silent, and discerning if he holds his tongue. (Proverbs 17:28)

If anybody can explain to me, in simple terms, that this statement is indeed factual, I'll be pleased to put it back on the list.

While there may indeed be exceptions to the old adage that one can always legally pick up a fumble, I am having a hard time understanding it in this situation.

4-21: A fumble is the accidental loss of player control when the ball unintentionally drops or slips from a player’s grasp.

4.15 Comment: It is not possible for a player to travel during a dribble. A player is not dribbling while slapping the ball during a jump, when a pass rebounds from his/her hand, when he/she fumbles, or when he/she bats a rebound or pass away from other players who are attempting to get it. The player is not in control under these conditions. It is a dribble when a player stands still and bounces the ball. It is not a dribble when a player stands still and holds the ball and touches it to the floor once or more than once.

4.15.4 Situation D: While dribbling: (a) A1 bats the ball over the head of an opponent, runs around the opponent, bats the ball to the floor and continues to dribble; (b) the ball bounces away but A1 is able to get to it and continues to dribble; (c) the ball hits A1’s foot and bounces away but A1 is able to overtake and pick it up; or (d) A1 fumbles the ball in ending the dribble so that A1 must run to recover it. Ruling: Violation in (a), because the ball was touched twice by A1’s hand(s) during a dribble, before it touched the floor. In (b), even though the dribble was interrupted it has not ended and A1 may continue the dribble. In (c), the dribble ended when A1 caught the ball; and it ended in (d) when it was fumbled. Even though the dribble has ended in (c) and (d), A1 may recover the ball but may not dribble again. (9-5)

The traveling rules state that foot movement not described as legal is illegal (quite the opposite of other rules where anything not listed as illegal is presumed to be legal). The rules then say that a player jumps while holding the ball only has 2 legal options...shoot or pass....before returning to the floor. The fact that they jumped while holding the ball has committed said player to one of those two actions....their options are set when they jump. Landing and picking up the ball is not one of the available options.

If It's Not Legal It's Illegal ...
 

Thanks Camron Rust. You've convinced me, and you did it in the simple terms that I asked for.

It's back on the list, in a clarified version.

When an airborne shooter fumbles the ball (while still in the air) instead of releasing the ball on a try, unintentionally drops the ball, and then returns to the floor and secures possession of the ball, it’s a traveling violation because the airborne shooter didn't shoot or pass before landing and picking up the ball.

Very Interesting ...
 

Interesting take on this. Never heard it described this way before.

Citation ...
 

4-44 : Traveling is moving a foot or feet in any direction in excess of prescribed limits while holding the ball. The limits on foot movements are as follows:
ART. 3 After coming to a stop and establishing a pivot foot:
a. The pivot foot may be lifted, but not returned to the floor, before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal.
b. If the player jumps, neither foot may be returned to the floor before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal..
ART. 4 After coming to a stop when neither foot can be a pivot:
a. One or both feet may be lifted, but may not be returned to the floor before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal.

Nothing about the ball being released because of a fumble.

Two choices, shoot or pass.

And the travel is because of the pivot foot being returned to the floor, having nothing to do with picking up the ball the ball? Correct?

Or does picking up the ball negate any possibility that this is a pass?

Holding ...
 

Wait a cotton picking minute.

With one very rare exception (below, only observed it called once), I thought that one had to be holding the ball to travel.

4.44.5 SITUATION B: A1 dives for a loose ball and slides after gaining control. A1 is in a position either on his/her back or stomach ... traveling if A1 puts the ball on the floor, then rises and is first to touch the ball.

Isn't an airborne player who has fumbled the ball no longer holding the ball?

4-44 : Traveling is moving a foot or feet in any direction in excess of prescribed limits while holding the ball.

So it doesn't matter if the ball is dropped/fumbled and the ball hits the floor BEFORE the shooter touches the ball again? It would still be a traveling violation?

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If you deem the action is the start of a dribble, touching the ball does not matter if the pivot foot has been lifted. And if you jump in the air with both feet, you cannot be doing that without the pivot foot being lifted now can you? :D

Peace

Drops The Ball ...
 

When an airborne player tries for goal, sees that the try will be blocked, purposely drops the ball, and touches the ball after it hits the floor, that player has traveled by starting a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor.

And if the fumble/drop is NOT deemed as the start of a dribble, but I an actual fumble?

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So if it's not a purposeful drop/fumble then no violation has occurred? I was assuming it was unintentional.

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A fumble by definition is an accidental loss of the ball. You cannot "fumble" the ball on purpose. And you can always recover a fumble.

Peace

If you can always recover a fumble, then why is the airborne shooter play being discussed in question?

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I cannot explain why some here like to nitpick everything, but a fumble is clearly by definition an accidental loss of the ball and a dribble is actually throwing, batting or pushing the ball to the floor. So one is unintentional and the other is very intentional. And since the rule says that you cannot start a dribble while moving your pivot foot, I think some are trying to suggest the only way you can call that is if you touch the ball again when that is not how the rule reads.

Peace

By definition the play seems legal, but I'm so confused now because it sounds like the book says that play is illegal.

I just want to know what to call, because Murphy's Law says that will happen in my game Friday night.

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In My Words ...
 

Please note that my misunderstood rules list is my list, in my words, but it is based on NFHS rules and interruptions.

Here's my most updated version the paragraph in question.

The shooter can retrieve one’s own airball if the official considers it to be a shot attempt, or if the ball hits the backboard. It is not a violation for that player to start another dribble at that point. When an airborne player keeps control of an attempted shot that is blocked, is unable to release the ball, and returns to the floor with it, that player has not traveled; it is a held ball. If, in a similar situation, the defender simply touches the ball, the airborne shooter maintains control of the ball, chooses not to release the ball, and returns to the floor holding the ball, it’s a traveling violation. If, in another similar situation, the shooter loses control of the ball because of the block, then this is simply a blocked shot. It is not a violation for that player to start a dribble at that point. When an airborne player tries for goal, sees that the try will be blocked, purposely drops the ball, and touches the ball after it hits the floor, that player has traveled by starting a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor.

Note that I've once again deleted the "fumble scenario". If I can't explain something to a coach, it's not going to be on my list.

Note: In a real game, I'm allowing the fumble to be picked up, but not dribbled agian.

Fumble ...
 

Well stated. Agree. One can always fumble, dribble, and fumble, but can't dribble, fumble, and dribble (if ball picked up from fumble with both hands).

I'm missing where this applies to a shooter fumbling a shot attempt, and whether that is traveling or not.

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Not A Mind Reader ..
 

I'm the "some", and JRutledge is correct, that's how the rule reads.

But since I can't read minds, in a real game, I'm waiting until the airborne player (who purposely drops the ball) touches the ball after it hits the floor. This is the only way I can know with 100% certainty that it wasn't an intended (legal) bounce pass, no such thing as a "self pass".

When an airborne player tries for goal, sees that the try will be blocked, purposely drops the ball, and touches the ball after it hits the floor, that player has traveled by starting a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor.

Fumble Scenario ...
 

I've once again deleted the "fumble scenario". If I can't explain something to a coach, it's not going to be on my list.

In a real game, I'm allowing the fumble to be picked up, but not dribbled again.

Deem ...
 

Agree.

No Closure ...
 

... Because we can't get 100% agreement on this situation. See Camron Rust's post #10.

Here's what I deleted:

When an airborne shooter fumbles the ball (while still in the air) instead of releasing the ball on a try, unintentionally drops the ball, and then returns to the floor and secures possession of the ball, it’s a traveling violation because the airborne shooter didn't shoot or pass before landing and picking up the ball.

This may be true, or it may not be true, so it's no longer on the list.

You do not have to read minds. We make rulings all the time based on our judgment. If you do not know when someone does something or something looks like it is on purpose then I guess officiating is going to be hard for some folks.

Peace

100% Factual ..
 

Because when I write something, put my name on it, and publish it, I want to be 100% certain that what I wrote is 100% factual.

Judgment ...
 

Agree. But if there's a teammate nearby, I might wait a second. One can intentionally drop the ball to make a bounce pass.

You should be able to write up something and know that you have to make a decision. The same is like if a player jumps in the air and is fouled. You have to decide if they are shooting or if they were passing. You have to decide if a player is passing or fumbles the ball and starts another dribble. You have to decide if an act was an attempt to throw a punch or if they were doing something normal. There are just examples of judgment.

But if you think this is a misunderstood rule, it really is not. Many people know it is a violation, but that is on your to include it or not.

Peace

Shooting Or Passing ...
 

Agree, and I always state immediately and loudly, "That was a shot" (especially if the ball wasn't released due to a holding foul), or, "That was a pass".

Misunderstood ...
 

The entire paragraph is about shot attempts. Fans often yell, "Travel" in response to an airball that's grabbed by the shooter. When an airborne player keeps control of an attempted shot that is blocked, is unable to release the ball, and returns to the floor with it, fans yell "Up and down". In the situation where the defender simply touches the ball, and the airborne shooter maintains control of the ball and comes down, fans yell, "Jump ball". When a shooter loses control of the ball because of a block, and then dribbles the ball, fans yell, "Double dribble". And some players, coaches, and rookie officials make the same mistakes as fans.

Of course, those are all incorrect interpretations of the rules, thus, misunderstood rules.

And there are some nit-picking misunderstood rule language issues as well. No such thing as an "Up and down" violation, it's really a "Travel", fans yelling for "Jump balls" are really calling for a "Held balls", and a "Double dribble" is really an "Illegal dribble".

Old Adages ...
 

I'm basing this on two old adages, one can always pick up a fumble, and one has to be holding the ball to travel.

What say you Camron Rust? I'm always interested in your take on such matters.

https://tse4.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.E...=0&w=300&h=300

The significance of being able to recover a fumbled ball is that it's not considered a dribble, therefore you wouldn't be committing an illegal dribble.

You can however fumble ball and commit a travel if you jump in the air, fumble the ball, and then retrieve the ball.

There is a difference between jumping in the air and purposely dropping the ball and jumping in the air and fumbling the ball.

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Not A Dribble ...
 

Thanks for your input Raymond. It's greatly appreciated.

Makes sense. But doesn't one have to be holding a ball at the same time one illegally moves a pivot foot to travel?

While the intent is certainly different, wouldn't you say that both of these are travel violations (based on your post above)?

Still waiting for that ah-ha moment that I almost always get from Raymond, and others, when I'm stymied. Not quite there.

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.8...=0&w=300&h=300

Do whatever you can explain.

I know anything I do, I can explain to a coach or my supervisors.

I don't worry about all these debates.

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Why would they be the same when one is literally done on purpose and the other is not? That is like saying any touching or tapping of the ball would be the same as a dribble even though you did not have control of the ball?

Peace

Cancelled ...
 

My misunderstood rules list shouldn't have rules listed that I misunderstand.

The situation will remain deleted (for now).

Dammit. That play is going to happen on Friday and I'm going to let it go, and I won't know if I did the right thing or not.

Oh well, it'll fit in with the other bad calls I make throughout the night. [emoji6]

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Same ...
 

I'm not saying this, I believe that Raymond is saying this.

In my opinion, an airborne player, seeing that his shot will probably be blocked, and dropping the ball on purpose and picking it up is a travel; while an airborne player fumbling the ball unintentionally can legally pick it up.

This is what I'm calling unless there's clear information against it.

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Jinxed ...
 

Agree. For me it's no longer about getting the interpretation correct on my list, but it's now about getting the interpretation correct when it happens in my game.

My contention is that you do not have to pick up this part at all. If you have not started a dribble, this is illegal the minute you release the ball. If a player did a split foot travel we would not wait until they picked up the ball again.

Peace

Underestimate ...
 

Don't underestimate the rules knowledge and experience of Raymond and Camron Rust. It would be a big mistake to ignore either of them.

It has nothing to do with that, it goes to the fact I can't point to a case play or rule to PROVE it to a coach.

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Literal Interpretation ...
 

By a literal interpretation of the rule, JRutledge is 100% correct. If one deems it to be the start of a dribble, it is a dribble. If one deems it to be the start of a bounce pass, it is a pass.

However, I believe that both JRutledge and I are on the same page in terms of the illegality of dropping the ball intentionally, and the legality of unintentionally fumbling the ball and recovering it.

Pick A Card, Any Card ...
 

You've got proof either way.

Illegal: He moved his pivot foot before starting a dribble.

Legal: One can always pick up a fumble.

So why is the play under question?

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Two Different Interpretations ...
 

Because we have two different interpretations.

And from respected officials. That's my issue.

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Trust But Verify ...
 

When both Raymond and Camron Rust disagree with me, I have to take pause.

https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.O...=0&w=264&h=165

Split Foot Travel ..
 

Note: Took me some time to figure out what a split foot travel is, as we have never used that term here in my little corner of Connecticut.

Again, JRutledge is 100% correct in his literal interpretation of the rule. By the time the play registers in my mind and I sound my whistle the ball has usually bounced off the floor and back into the player's hand. Could it have been the start of a bounce pass, sure, I guess, but JRutledge is right in his contention that experienced officials have enough good judgment to differentiate between the start of a bounce pass and the start of a dribble. Context is everything. If I'm unsure, I can wait a second and be sure.

There are gaps and blind spots in the rules where differing interpretations can be justified.

Knowing how to explain one's particular interpretation requires communication skills and knowledge of the rule & case books.

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Blind Spots ...
 

Is Raymond saying that this situation may be one of those blind spots?

... with differing evidence used to show that this situation could be legal, or illegal.

If that's what he is saying, then I can agree with him, and this controversial situation will remain off of my list.

Stupid NFHS.

https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.7...=0&w=250&h=150

Purpose And Intent ...
 

If this happens in my next game, and I hope that it doesn't, I'm calling it like this:

While old adages are certainly no substitute for rule or interpretation citations, fumbles are probably covered by purpose and intent.

The problem is that there is no rule that says anything about a player always being able to pick up a fumble but there is a rule that says a player only has two options once he/she jumps.

This is not unlike the situation where a player throws the ball off his/her own backboard....it is treated as if it were a try for most purposes even though it actually isn't a try since the player wasn't actually trying to throw the ball into the basket.

Consider also the case where a player lying on the floor sits the ball down, gets up while not holding the ball, then picks up the ball. This is considered a travel. Why? It is deemed that the player is circumventing the intended rules.

The fumble on a try is essentially the same thing. Players will make it appear to be a fumble to circumvent the rules once they go airborne and find they have nowhere to go. Once they jump, they have two options by rule: pass or shoot. Anything else is considered a de facto dribble.

Circumventing Rules ...
 

Thanks for your well thought out reply. Great points (as was your earlier post) and great examples. My list existed for almost fifteen years without this situation. It was a very recent addition after a video interpretation by IAABO (not the NFHS). While Camron Rust, Raymond, and others may be right, it's still not a 100% fact in my mind, so I'm leaving it off the list, which doesn't mean the IAABO interpretation (and Camron Rust and Raymond) is wrong, it just means that it's not on my list, as many rules and interpretations are not on my list (though it's quite lengthy, probably too lengthy).

If this situation appears on a written exam, I take a chance on an incorrect answer of calling picking up this fumbled try a legal play. If this situation happens in a real game in real time, and the first thing that pops into my mind is "Fumble" (not "He dropped it"), I'll pass on a whistle, and if anybody complains, I'll confidently explain "It was a fumble", and unless it was the final play of a tied game, my call will probably be forgotten.

Camron Rust: In your great, well written, rational post, why did you call it a de facto dribble? Why not just "dribble"? De facto means being in effect though not formally recognized. So, is it a formally recognized dribble, or is it not a formally recognized dribble? By choosing the phrase "de facto" are you consciously, or unconsciously admitting that this situation may be a "gap" or "blind spot" in the rules, as posted by Raymond earlier?

I called it a de facto dribble because it isn't technically a dribble but is treated as if it were one....the same as throwing the ball isn't a try but is treated as if it were a try in most respects. Another one...a shooter who has released the ball and crashes into a legal defender is called for a player control foul even though they don't actually have player control at that point. In fact, this last one might be the best comparison...a player that jumps in an attempt to shoot is treated as if they have player control in most respects until they land....thus fumbling doesn't get them out of the traveling rule any more than releasing the ball on a shot gets them out of player control foul.

Brilliant ...
 

Brilliant, but still not on my list.

Thanks for your time and effort. You've obviously put a lot of thought into this. Much appreciated. It wasn't in vain. You haven't completely changed my mind, but have left me scratching my head.

I wish the NFHS had a caseplay with a fumble.

4.44.3 SITUATION A: A1 jumps to try for goal. B1 also jumps and: (a) slaps the ball out of A1’s hands; (b) touches the ball but does not prevent A1 from releasing the ball; (c) touches the ball and A1 returns to the floor holding the ball; or (d) touches the ball and A1 drops it to the floor and touches it first after it bounces. RULING: In (a) and (b), the ball remains live. In (c), a traveling violation. In (d), a violation for starting a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor. Since the touching did not prevent the pass or try in (b), (c) and (d), the ball remains live and subsequent action is covered by rules which apply to the situation.

4.25.2 SITUATION: A1 jumps to try for goal or to pass the ball. B1 leaps or reaches and is able to put his/her hands on the ball and keep A1 from releasing it. A1: (a) returns to the floor with the ball; or (b) is unable to control the ball and it drops to the floor. RULING: A held ball results immediately in (a) and (b) when airborne A1 is prevented from releasing the ball to pass or try for goal.

Very Interesting ...
 

Interesting that the player is said to touch the ball after it bounces. Many Forum members (I have agreed for a written exam) have discussed that one doesn't have to wait for the touch, but if one deems it the start of a dribble, then it's the start of a dribble, and if one deems it the start of a bounce pass, then it's the start of a bounce pass, as a literal interpretation of the rules.

Wonder why the NFHS specifically stated "touches it first after it bounces"?

Is it possible that the NFHS wants us to wait for a touch to insure that this is not the start of a legal bounce pass?

Blocked Shot ...
 

Couldn't (b) be considered a blocked shot and play on?

No.

IRL, it's judgment, of course, whether A is prevented from releasing the ball and then fumbles it, or the shot is blocked out of A1's hands. In the play, it's a given

Blocked Shot ...
 

Thanks bob jenkins.

So this (below) part of my list isn't true.

When an airborne player keeps control of an attempted shot that is blocked, is unable to release the ball ... the shooter loses control of the ball because of the block, then this is simply a blocked shot.

It's been on my list for almost fifteen years, published annually on the Forum, in an IAABO Sportorials magazine available to 15,000 IAABO members, duplicated on many basketball officiating websites, and nobody ever complained about it.

I hate this entire attempted shot paragraph. But it's necessary. I just have to write it better.

The shooter can retrieve one’s own airball if the official considers it to be a shot attempt, or if the ball hits the backboard. It is not a violation for that player to start another dribble at that point. When an airborne player keeps control of an attempted shot that is blocked, is unable to release the ball, and returns to the floor with it, that player has not traveled; it is a held ball. If, in a similar situation, the defender simply touches the ball, the airborne shooter maintains control of the ball, chooses not to release the ball, and returns to the floor holding the ball, it’s a traveling violation. If, in another similar situation, the shooter loses control of the ball because of the block, then this is simply a blocked shot. It is not a violation for that player to start a dribble at that point. When an airborne player tries for goal, sees that the try will be blocked, purposely drops the ball, and touches the ball after it hits the floor, that player has traveled by starting a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor.

I think your statements are generally true. See edits

Strike Through ...
 

Thanks, I'll check it out tomorrow.

How does one achieve a strike through on the Forum?

Final Draft ...
 

How's this? Can we now put this to bed? Now separated into two paragraphs. Note that I avoided saying anything that may be considered controversial about fumbles.

The shooter can retrieve one’s own airball if the official considers it to be a shot attempt, or if the ball hits the backboard. It is not a violation for that player to start another dribble at that point.

If a defender puts a hand(s) on a ball controlled by airborne shooter (or passer), such that the airborne player is unable to release the ball, that player has not traveled, it is a held ball. If, in a similar situation, the defender simply touches the ball, and the airborne player chooses not to release the ball, and returns to the floor holding the ball, it’s a traveling violation. If, in another similar situation, the airborne player loses control of the ball because of the touch, then this is simply a blocked shot. It is not a violation for that player to start a dribble at that point. When an airborne player tries for goal (or passes), sees that the try (or pass) will be blocked, purposely drops the ball, and touches the ball after it hits the floor, that player has traveled by starting a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor.

Jinx ...
 

Bad karma. Hadn't seen this play in many, many years, but had it today in my game.

Kid barely five feet tall shooting against a kid six feet plus. You should have seen the terrified look on the shooter's face.

Thank God it didn't involve a fumble.

When an airborne player tries for goal, sees that the try will be blocked, purposely drops the ball, and touches the ball after it hits the floor, that player has traveled by starting a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor.

Thankfully it didn't happen to me.

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Karma ...
 

Shut up. You were the one worried about it in a real game. It was supposed to happen to you, not to me.

[emoji23]

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Just called a travel in the Wyoming-Stanford game late in the first half at the Diamond Classic. Called once the player put the ball down to the floor.

Peace

Jinx ...
 

Sorry I jinxed you.

https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.f...=0&w=175&h=131

Mathew 7:7 ...
 

... "Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto yo.:”

2000-2001 NFHS Basketball Interpretations Supplement #1
Situation 1: A1 is an airborne shooter preparing to release the ball on a shot attempt. Instead of releasing the ball on the try, A1 fumbles the ball (while still in the air) and drops it. A1 then returns to the floor and secures possession of the ball. Ruling: Traveling violation. While airborne the ball must be released for a try or pass. (4—43-3a; 94)

Found this while looking for something else today.

Somewhat Similar Situations ...
 

I have now separated these somewhat similar situations into three different paragraphs.

The shooter can retrieve one’s own airball if the official considers it to be a shot attempt, or if the ball hits the backboard. It is not a violation for that player to start another dribble at that point.

If a defender puts a hand(s) on a ball controlled by airborne shooter (or passer), such that the airborne player is unable to release the ball, that player has not traveled, it is a held ball. If, in another similar situation, the airborne player loses control of the ball because of the touch, then this is simply a blocked shot. It is not a violation for that player to start a dribble at that point. If, in a similar situation, the defender simply touches the ball, and the airborne player chooses not to release the ball, and returns to the floor holding the ball, it’s a traveling violation.

When an airborne player tries for goal (or passes), sees that the try (or pass) will be blocked, purposely drops the ball, and touches the ball after it hits the floor, that player has traveled by starting a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor. If an airborne shooter is preparing to release the ball on a shot attempt, and instead of releasing the ball on the try fumbles the ball (while still in the air), drops the ball, and then returns to the floor and secures possession of the ball, it’s a traveling violation.

Yes, the NFHS has long ago spoken on this matter. Some will still insist otherwise, however.

Born Again ...
 

I was one of those who insisted otherwise, but I've been "born again" after finding this twenty-one year old interpretation.