jumper

[ilyazhito]

The shot clock only resets to 20 on an offensive rebound or foul/violation in the frontcourt under 20 in NCAAW. Are you saying that if the opponents get possession in the frontcourt under NCAAW rules, it is a 30-second reset?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

The shot clock only resets to 20 on an offensive rebound or foul/violation in the frontcourt under 20 in NCAAW. Are you saying that if the opponents get possession in the frontcourt under NCAAW rules, it is a 30-second reset?

I'm saying that in the OP the shot clock was never running -- it should still be at 30 (and if not, it's a timer's error). So, it will remain at 30 no matter whether B inbounds the ball adjacent to the front court or to the back court.

[ilyazhito]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I'm saying that in the OP the shot clock was never running -- it should still be at 30 (and if not, it's a timer's error). So, it will remain at 30 no matter whether B inbounds the ball adjacent to the front court or to the back court.

That's what I originally said. Since the shot clock never ran, it would make sense that the shot clock stays where it is at. I'll have to re-read both men's and women's rulebooks and see if Raymond is right as it specifically relates to the men's game. Stuff like this makes me wish that the men's and women's committees would get together and unify the shot clock rules. They already have the same rule for offensive rebounds and frontcourt fouls, so why not make everything else consistent.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

That's what I originally said. Since the shot clock never ran, it would make sense that the shot clock stays where it is at. I'll have to re-read both men's and women's rulebooks and see if Raymond is right as it specifically relates to the men's game. Stuff like this makes me wish that the men's and women's committees would get together and unify the shot clock rules. They already have the same rule for offensive rebounds and frontcourt fouls, so why not make everything else consistent.

NCAA-Men's:
RULE 2 / OFFICIALS AND THEIR DUTIES
Section 11. Duties of Shot-Clock Operator
The shot-clock operator shall:
Art. 6. Stopping and resetting the shot clock:
d. Reset to 20 seconds when the following occurs:
8. During a jump ball, one team causes the ball to be out of bounds and the other team is awarded the ball for a throw-in in the frontcourt.

Causing the ball to go OOB on the jump ball would mean the shot clock never started, yet we still set it to 20 seconds if the throw-in is adjacent to the FC.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Raymond

NCAA-Men's:
RULE 2 / OFFICIALS AND THEIR DUTIES
Section 11. Duties of Shot-Clock Operator
The shot-clock operator shall:
Art. 6. Stopping and resetting the shot clock:
d. Reset to 20 seconds when the following occurs:
8. During a jump ball, one team causes the ball to be out of bounds and the other team is awarded the ball for a throw-in in the frontcourt.

Causing the ball to go OOB on the jump ball would mean the shot clock never started, yet we still set it to 20 seconds if the throw-in is adjacent to the FC.

Thanks -- that rule is NOT in the NCAAW book.

[ilyazhito]

Originally Posted by Raymond

NCAA-Men's:
RULE 2 / OFFICIALS AND THEIR DUTIES
Section 11. Duties of Shot-Clock Operator
The shot-clock operator shall:
Art. 6. Stopping and resetting the shot clock:
d. Reset to 20 seconds when the following occurs:
8. During a jump ball, one team causes the ball to be out of bounds and the other team is awarded the ball for a throw-in in the frontcourt.

Causing the ball to go OOB on the jump ball would mean the shot clock never started, yet we still set it to 20 seconds if the throw-in is adjacent to the FC.

It's illogical, but that's the rule that's there, so I'll enforce it that way if I work NCAA men's ball.

JRut, are you saying that NBA officials, both male and female, tend to come from the women's college ranks? That's a surprise, but with the rules aligning between NCAAW, that makes sense in some weird way.

Anyway, the jump ball violation would have both AP and shot clock implications.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

It's illogical, but that's the rule that's there, so I'll enforce it that way if I work NCAA men's ball.

JRut, are you saying that NBA officials, both male and female, tend to come from the women's college ranks? That's a surprise, but with the rules aligning between NCAAW, that makes sense in some weird way.

Anyway, the jump ball violation would have both AP and shot clock implications.

NBA officials tend to come from their system. There is no direct pathway for the NBA with people that work college basketball. There might be officials that have college basketball experience, but that is not how they are getting identified and used. College basketball has almost nothing to do with the NBA from an evaluator standpoint or how they train their officials.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

NBA officials tend to come from their system. There is no direct pathway for the NBA with people that work college basketball ...

I'm not disputing what JRutledge states, he seems confident and seems to know what he's talking about, he works top-notch scholastic and college games and has been a trainer at many basketball officiating camps all over the Midwest, and beyond, probably knows several professional basketball officials, I've only worked scholastic games here in my little corner of Connecticut and have only known just a few professional basketball officials.

I'm just curious as to how someone can be identified as a potential professional basketball official, receive professional training, and then begin to make their way up the professional ladder, with little prior scholastic or collegiate basketball officiating experience.

Perhaps JRutledge is referring to professorial training/evaluation/recruiting camps, just like we have scholastic and collegiate training/evaluation/recruiting camps?

Want to be a professional official? Start by attending so-and-sos professional camp? Little prior scholastic or collegiate basketball officiating experience required? Previous success and accolades at scholastic or collegiate basketball officiating not necessary? We'll teach you the professional way from the get-go? Fastest way up the officiating ladder to an NBA or a WNBA career? Guaranteed, or your money back?

All the very few guys that I know in the professional ranks were previously outstanding scholastic and collegiate basketball officials.

I wonder how many top-notch professional basketball officials started out by working scholastic middle school, freshman, or junior varsity games to begin their climb up the officiating ladder?

Maybe one can start officiating at the college level with no scholastic experience; or maybe one can start officiating at the professional level with no scholastic or college experience?

Maybe there's not just one long ladder, but several ladders, and one can chose, or not chose, to switch ladders, or start on any ladder that they wish to start.

As anyone can easily tell, I'm way out of my league in regard to this topic. Outside my wheelhouse. Fish out of water.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

That's what I originally said. Since the shot clock never ran, it would make sense that the shot clock stays where it is at. I'll have to re-read both men's and women's rulebooks and see if Raymond is right as it specifically relates to the men's game. Stuff like this makes me wish that the men's and women's committees would get together and unify the shot clock rules. They already have the same rule for offensive rebounds and frontcourt fouls, so why not make everything else consistent.

They are 2 separate entities. It doesn't matter if the rules are the same or not because there are Men's staffs and there Women's staffs. With the very rare exception, officials either work one side or the other. Those few who do work both sides don't do so for the same conference and they have put the burden upon themselves to master 2 sets of rules.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Stuff like this makes me wish that the men's and women's committees would get together and unify the shot clock rules. They already have the same rule for offensive rebounds and frontcourt fouls, so why not make everything else consistent.

They tried that and it was a disaster. Women's basketball spent a lot of time trying to be relevant with different rules and wanted things to be done differently. Let us face it, women and men do not play basketball the same. One game is largely above the ring and the other is below the ring more than high school boys. So no you will not have the same committees when one sport makes over a billion dollars for their tournament and the other loses money every year in their tournament. The main reason for example Men's basketball does not go to quarters, because Men's basketball would lose a media timeout or two doing such a thing. The committees need to state separate so they can effectively address the trends in each game appropriately. I started working Women's college ball then turned to Men's college where I wanted to be. I never worked consistently both at the same time and am glad I did not have to. Hard enough to keep track of NF and NCAA Rules for one code. Just the same reason you do not see officials that get to the NBA go through the Men's college ranks as a standard.

Peace