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Old Sat Sep 04, 2021, 09:20am
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Fun With Out Of Bounds

IAABO Make The Call Video

https://storage.googleapis.com/refqu...vil1muCg%3D%3D

Was this out-of-bounds situation handled correctly? (Crew of 2) The ball is knocked out of bounds above the free-throw line extended on the Lead's sideline. Was this an accurate ruling? Did the correct official make the ruling? Were the officials is a good position to make an accurate ruling?

Two choices: This play is correctly ruled. This play is ruled incorrectly.

My comment: This play is ruled incorrectly. It appears that defender White #21 last touched the ball before it went out of bounds. An out of bounds call above the free-throw line extended on the Lead's sideline is the Trail’s call.

Disclaimer: For IAABO eyes only. Above is not a NFHS mechanic, it's only an IAABO mechanic which obviously doesn't mean a hill of beans to most members of this Forum.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Sep 05, 2021 at 12:54pm.
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Old Sat Sep 04, 2021, 09:30am
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Old Dogs, New Tricks ...

Old timers like me (forty plus years) are sometimes challenged by this situation. After decades of the old two person NFHS mechanic giving out of bounds calls to the Lead for the entire sideline all the way back to the back endline, it was difficult to teach old dogs new IAABO tricks (above the free-throw line extended on Lead's sideline is Trail's call).

For many, many years after the IAABO mechanic change, pregames included statements like, "Two whistles are better than no whistle", and, "We don't want the ball ending up on the coach's lap with no whistle".

Now, as my generation retires to the sidelines (no pun intended) we hear less and less of such pregame statements, and the "new" mechanic comes easy to the up and coming young guns.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Sep 05, 2021 at 11:44am.
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Old Sat Sep 04, 2021, 11:14am
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Golden Parachute ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
... difficult to teach old dogs new tricks ...
Two hand reporting.

Stop clock signal before jump (held) ball signal.

No more team control punch signal.

Am I being pushed out?

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Old Sat Sep 04, 2021, 12:29pm
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I'm not familiar with the proper to 2-man mechanics for sideline coverage.

For me on this play, I would want the Lead to widen out when the ball starts coming to his side. He seems locked in on a passive matchup across the paint.

As far as sideline coverage, I'm of the school that the Lead should blow his whistle and ask for help.

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Old Sat Sep 04, 2021, 12:38pm
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Cadence Whistle ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
As far as sideline coverage, I'm of the school that the Lead should blow his whistle and ask for help.
Here in the land of the two person game, the IAABO Lead should give the Trail first crack on an out of bounds call above the free throw line extended. Not hearing a whistle (often from old timers like me) from the Trail, the Lead will sound his whistle to stop the clock, make a call if he has one, or ask for help if he doesn't have a call.

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I was in prison and you came to visit me. (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Sep 05, 2021 at 01:05pm.
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Old Sat Sep 04, 2021, 12:47pm
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Two Person Game ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
2-man mechanics for ... line coverage.
Two person difficult out of bounds calls involve the front court endline opposite where the Lead is. Lead's responsible for out of bounds calls all the way along the entire endline, yet his primary coverage ends before the endline intersects the far sideline, that's the primary coverage area (but not the out of bounds responsibility) of the Trail.

The Trail has to call a travel, or foul, an inch away from the endline there, but shouldn't call an out of bounds there if a player steps on the boundary line.

This is where we often see the Lead sounding his whistle to stop the clock for out of bounds and asking for help (especially on a ball that flies out of bounds along the endline, a ball that originated from the Trail's primary coverage area).

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
This is the Lead's line. The Trail should only signal if the Lead is asking for help ... to a ball coming from the Trail being thrown to the endline.
Edit: Above is true for both IAABO and NFHS line responsibility mechanics.

I hope that you three person guys appreciate how lucky you are.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Sep 05, 2021 at 04:11pm.
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Old Sat Sep 04, 2021, 01:13pm
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Do you have the passage from the mechanics manual that shows who is responsible for each sideline in a crew of two?

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Old Sat Sep 04, 2021, 06:25pm
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Line Responsibility ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
Do you have the passage from the mechanics manual that shows who is responsible for each sideline in a crew of two?
If necessary, save and enlarge. I scanned on high resolution.

Current IAABO mechanics manual.

Line Responsibility:



Lead has entire frontcourt endline and closest sideline below free throw line extended. Trail has everything else (including division line).

Note: Press Coverage: Lead Official responsible for out of bounds on sideline opposite Trail official.

Primary Coverage Areas



I do not have access to a current NFHS mechanics manual.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Sat Sep 04, 2021 at 06:28pm.
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Old Sat Sep 04, 2021, 06:58pm
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This call is the L's call in NFHS 2 person mechanics. NFHS hasn't made any change (that I'm aware of) to make this the T's call. Lead's line...lead's call...all the way down the line. Now, much of the time, the L can only blow the whistle to indicate it is OOB and ask the T for help, but that works very well.

If we were to divide the whistle/call responsibility it based on being above/below the FT line extended, I can see it creating conflicting double whistles when the ball goes OOB near the FT line extended. The L makes a call having judged the ball to be below the FT line while the T makes a call having judged it to be above. Hmmm. Much cleaner to have a line be entirely owned by one official. There is much less opportunity for situations.
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Old Sat Sep 04, 2021, 07:01pm
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2 manuals; 2 different ways

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
Do you have the passage from the mechanics manual that shows who is responsible for each sideline in a crew of two?
Raymond,

The first image is from the NFHS manual; the second is from the IAABO manual. In NFHS, the Lead has whole sideline nearer to Lead; in IAABO, line coverage gets split at the FTLE.

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Old Sat Sep 04, 2021, 07:04pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Goodwin View Post
Raymond,



The first image is from the NFHS manual; the second is from the IAABO manual. In NFHS, the Lead has whole sideline nearer to Lead; in IAABO, line coverage gets split at the FTLE.



Thanks Mike. Glad I've been operating under the correct assumption.

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Old Sat Sep 04, 2021, 07:22pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Goodwin View Post
Raymond,

The first image is from the NFHS manual; the second is from the IAABO manual. In NFHS, the Lead has whole sideline nearer to Lead; in IAABO, line coverage gets split at the FTLE.

I just have to ask. Is this IAABO coverage for all line coverage or is it just for a ball that is thrown/knocked OOB? If for all parts of line coverage, how does the T know when a player has stepped on the opposite sideline? In my experience, there is NO way the T can see that with any certainty. That line must absolutely be covered by the L to have any chance of getting the call right. In fact, I've had trails call a player OOB across the court like that (not following correct mechanics) while the that player wasn't even close to being OOB.
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Old Sat Sep 04, 2021, 07:40pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
The Trail has to call a travel, or foul, an inch away from the endline there, but shouldn't call an out of bounds there if a player steps on the boundary line.

This is where we often see the Lead sounding his whistle to stop the clock for out of bounds and asking for help (especially on a ball that flies out of bounds along the endline, a ball that originated from the Trail's primary coverage area).

I hope that you three person guys appreciate how lucky you are.
BillyMac,

Kinda weird, isn't it? Being able to call violations that close to the endline*except* out-of-bounds. In the NFHS manual at 4.4.1.A.2 it says that "typically an official should rule on violations in his/her PCA, but any violation observed should be ruled," though I can't recall a time where a Trail (or Center) ruled out of bounds along the endline, other than perhaps, a first-year official. The IAABO manual has no corresponding provision that I could find.

Even in a crew of 3, we also have the Lead occasionally asking for help just as you described, except the Center official would be right around the FTLE (and probably officiating what's happening immediately prior to the ball going out), rather than at the 28-foot mark. (Well, that and Trail could still be watching their own PCA, so yes, I'll admit we're lucky).
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Old Sat Sep 04, 2021, 07:51pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
I just have to ask. Is this IAABO coverage for all line coverage or is it just for a ball that is thrown/knocked OOB? If for all parts of line coverage, how does the T know when a player has stepped on the opposite sideline? In my experience, there is NO way the T can see that with any certainty. That line must absolutely be covered by the L to have any chance of getting the call right. In fact, I've had trails call a player OOB across the court like that (not following correct mechanics) while the that player wasn't even close to being OOB.
I traded IAABO mechanics for NFHS mechanics in 2015, so I'm not quite current and will have to wait for someone (like BillyMac, perhaps) to tell us what they do as far as stepping on the line. I do vaguely recall having Trail covering the ball that gets knocked or thrown out. But you're absolutely right, Camron, actual sideline coverage has to come from Lead, who gets wider than usual when necessary (and it's something we cover in pregame, because we work in crews of 2 on occasion here).
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Old Sat Sep 04, 2021, 08:05pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
If necessary, save and enlarge. I scanned on high resolution.

Current IAABO mechanics manual.

Line Responsibility:

Lead has entire frontcourt endline and closest sideline below free throw line extended. Trail has everything else (including division line).

Note: Press Coverage: Lead Official responsible for out of bounds on sideline opposite Trail official.

Primary Coverage Areas


I do not have access to a current NFHS mechanics manual.
Sorry, BillyMac:

I didn't mean to duplicate your work; I hadn't seen that you posted the picture from the IAABO manual.
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