Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1044493)

... difficult to teach old dogs new tricks ...

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1044498)

As far as sideline coverage, I'm of the school that the Lead should blow his whistle and ask for help.

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1044498)

2-man mechanics for ... line coverage.

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1044514)

This is the Lead's line. The Trail should only signal if the Lead is asking for help ... to a ball coming from the Trail being thrown to the endline.

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1044501)

Do you have the passage from the mechanics manual that shows who is responsible for each sideline in a crew of two?

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1044501)

Do you have the passage from the mechanics manual that shows who is responsible for each sideline in a crew of two?

Originally Posted by Mike Goodwin (Post 1044507)

Raymond,



The first image is from the NFHS manual; the second is from the IAABO manual. In NFHS, the Lead has whole sideline nearer to Lead; in IAABO, line coverage gets split at the FTLE.



https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...88c392_w_d.jpghttps://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...a07e7a_c_d.jpg

Originally Posted by Mike Goodwin (Post 1044507)

Raymond,

The first image is from the NFHS manual; the second is from the IAABO manual. In NFHS, the Lead has whole sideline nearer to Lead; in IAABO, line coverage gets split at the FTLE.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...88c392_w_d.jpghttps://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...a07e7a_c_d.jpg

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1044500)

The Trail has to call a travel, or foul, an inch away from the endline there, but shouldn't call an out of bounds there if a player steps on the boundary line.

This is where we often see the Lead sounding his whistle to stop the clock for out of bounds and asking for help (especially on a ball that flies out of bounds along the endline, a ball that originated from the Trail's primary coverage area).

I hope that you three person guys appreciate how lucky you are.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 1044510)

I just have to ask. Is this IAABO coverage for all line coverage or is it just for a ball that is thrown/knocked OOB? If for all parts of line coverage, how does the T know when a player has stepped on the opposite sideline? In my experience, there is NO way the T can see that with any certainty. That line must absolutely be covered by the L to have any chance of getting the call right. In fact, I've had trails call a player OOB across the court like that (not following correct mechanics) while the that player wasn't even close to being OOB.

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1044505)

If necessary, save and enlarge. I scanned on high resolution.

Current IAABO mechanics manual.

Line Responsibility:

Lead has entire frontcourt endline and closest sideline below free throw line extended. Trail has everything else (including division line).

Note: Press Coverage: Lead Official responsible for out of bounds on sideline opposite Trail official.

Primary Coverage Areas


I do not have access to a current NFHS mechanics manual.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 1044506)

This call is the L's call in NFHS 2 person mechanics. NFHS hasn't made any change Lead's line ... lead's call ... all the way down the line ... Much cleaner to have a line be entirely owned by one official.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 1044510)

Is this IAABO coverage for all line coverage ... how does the T know when a player has stepped on the opposite sideline? In my experience, there is NO way the T can see that with any certainty. That line must absolutely be covered by the L to have any chance of getting the call right.

Originally Posted by Mike Goodwin (Post 1044513)

Sorry, BillyMac.

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1044500)

Two person difficult out of bounds calls involve the front court endline opposite where the Lead is. He's responsible for out of bounds calls all the way along the entire endline, yet his primary coverage ends before the endline intersects the far sideline, that's the primary coverage area (but not the out of bounds responsibility) of the Trail. The Trail has to call a travel, or foul, an inch away from the endline there, but shouldn't call an out of bounds there if a player steps on the boundary line. This is where we often see the Lead sounding his whistle to stop the clock for out of bounds and asking for help (especially on a ball that flies out of bounds along the endline, a ball that originated from the Trail's primary coverage area).

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 1044510)

... know when a player has stepped on the ... line?

Originally Posted by Mike Goodwin (Post 1044511)

Kinda weird, isn't it? Being able to call violations that close to the endline except out-of-bounds. In the NFHS manual at 4.4.1.A.2 it says that "typically an official should rule on violations in his/her PCA, but any violation observed should be ruled"

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1044514)

This is the Lead's line. The Trail should only signal if the Lead is asking for help ... a ball coming from the Trail being thrown to the endline.

Originally Posted by Mike Goodwin (Post 1044511)

I can't recall a time where a Trail ruled out of bounds along the endline, other than perhaps, a first-year official.

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1044524)

This is from the NASO Mechanics Illustrated Book for 2021-2022: Covering boundary lines is among the most difficult tasks using a crew of two officials. By correctly placing so much emphasis on off-ball coverage for the lead, some boundary-line coverage sometimes gets sacrificed. The NFHS manual states that in the frontcourt the lead is responsible for the sideline nearest the lead and the endline. The trail is responsible for the division line and the sideline nearest the trail. While in theory that sounds easy, the actual practice is very difficult and sacrifices off-ball coverage in the lane area. Here’s an example. A trouble spot for two-person crews is a player who has the ball near the sideline above the free-throw line extended and opposite the trail. The trail correctly moves toward the center of the court to officiate the action on the player with the ball, such as fouls, traveling violations, etc. The problem: The manual states that sideline is the lead’s responsibility. Well, if the lead has to look beyond the free-throw line extended to watch for a potential sideline violation and the trail has to watch for fouls, etc., who is watching the other players? No one. There are too many off-ball problems that can occur if no one is supervising those players. Referee recommends that the trail also have opposite sideline responsibility above the free-throw line extended. Sometimes, the trail must move well beyond the center of the court to see an out-of-bounds violation. Stay deep (toward the division line) on the play to get a good angle. Even with great hustle toward the far sideline, it is a tough look for the trail. The problem compounds if there’s a swing pass back toward the other sideline. The trail must hustle back toward that sideline to get a good look there. Staying deep gives the trail a chance.

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1044524)

... how in the hell does the Trail see a player stepping on the line or a close tip near the sideline (similar to the play featured).

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1044528)

... Two-person coverage is flawed, so if you have it you are going to have to do things you would not need to do with a 3rd official out there. But not sure how the Trail can clearly know that the ball was knocked out on the offensive player ... if there is a play near the line and someone is stepping on the line, the Trail has no chance. The Lead has to make those kinds of calls.

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1044520)

While I've always disliked this "new" IAABO line responsibility mechanic, I do find myself doing less sideline above the free throw line extended ball watching as the Lead.

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1044528)

Two-person coverage is flawed ...

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1044529)

... IAABO just wanted to try something different, something that is also flawed. IAABO just traded one problem for a different problem.

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1044527)

Snarky answer: Three person games.

Shooting from the hip, the best I can come up with for two person games is for both sideline responsibilities, and frontcourt endline responsibilities, to be covered as part of one's primary coverage area, and let the chips fall where they may. It may cut down on some ball watching, and out of bounds is a violation (like any other violation) that should be called when it occurs in one's primary coverage area. Tough calls can be solved by asking for help, offering help, or using the alternating possession arrow.

Or turn over the NFHS/IAABO conflict to the United Nations Security Council.

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1044531)

The Lead can watch his sideline to blow his whistle without ball watching. Need to be able to do more than one thing at a time.

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1044529)

... good officials should be always be aware of where all the players are, and where their partner is ...

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1044520)

While I've always disliked this "new" IAABO line responsibility mechanic, I do find myself doing less sideline above the free throw line extended ball watching as the Lead.

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1044528)

Two-person coverage is flawed ...

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1044533)

Watching your sideline ... means being aware when the ball goes out on your sideline.

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1044499)

... the Lead will sound his whistle to stop the clock, make a call if he has one, or ask for help if he doesn't have a call.

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1044500)

... see the Lead sounding his whistle to stop the clock for out of bounds and asking for help (especially on a ball that flies out of bounds ... a ball that originated from the Trail's primary coverage area) ...

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1044534)

Agree. Sound your whistle. But does it also mean knowing how the ball got tipped (possibly deflected) out of bounds, or seeing a ball handler step one quarter of one inch on the sideline forty-one (or maybe forty-six, or eighty-three, or ninety-three)) feet away?

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1044535)

It means knowing the status of the ball as far as being in bounds or out of bounds, and properly stopping play with your whistle.

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1044536)

... it's still an interesting take worth discussing.

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1044523)

It appears that the NFHS and IAABO both have the same conflict with primary coverage areas and line responsibilities along the frontcourt endline (side opposite the Lead).

Technically, according to both the NFHS and IAABO, out of bounds is a violation (like any other violation) and should be called when it occurs in one's primary coverage area.

And yet, the frontcourt endline responsibility is solely the Lead's responsibility in both NFHS and IAABO mechanics.

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1044520)

Agree. Yes, it's for all line coverage except press coverage (and I assume fast break transitions). The IAABO rationale is that the Lead, under many situations, shouldn't even be looking there (unless he's ball watching). What makes matters worse is that, half the time, the coaches often have the best look, better than either official.

While I've always disliked this "new" IAABO line responsibility mechanic, I do find myself doing less sideline above the free throw line extended ball watching as the Lead.

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1044536)

I think I now see Raymond's point. I believe that he's saying that Line Responsibility, as defined by NFHS and IAABO mechanics, only means a responsibility to stop the clock, and that the responsibility of actually making a directional call lies primarily with the primary coverage official.

Interesting take. Especially when one throws in asking for help, and offering help. Not sure it that's what the NFHS and IAABO actually mean, but it's still an interesting take worth discussing.

One thing that I always tell my partner in our pregame conference it that by working together, asking for help, and offering help, we should get almost every out of bounds call correct.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 1044539)

Line coverage is specifically spelled out and the two are not connected.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 1044540)

The lead isn't actually ball watching. They're only watching the line, not the defender and offensive player.

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1044543)

If the ball is being passed around and there is action in the paint, the L still needs to be aware of the ball so the L can position himself (or herself) properly. The L's peripheral vision will let min / her blow the whistle if the ball gets thrown / tipped out of bounds and the L can ask for help.

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1044545)

You know when you the ball goes out of bounds. If you need some help as to the proper direction, ask for that help. But the lead has the line down the sideline and that is hardly an issue most of the time.

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1044528)

Two-person coverage is flawed ...

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1044579)

This play is ruled incorrectly 34% (including me).

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1044579)

This play coverage should be a topic in every pregame conference when working in a Crew of 2. If the Crew decides to deviate from the manual to have the Lead take the sideline and make this ruling, they should agree before the game. This will avoid the brief hesitation as seen by this crew.

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1044602)

I do know this, there is no way a Trail can see a player step on the line with clarity as the lead can who is looking up the line.

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1044605)

Honestly, I could use either system ...

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1044606)

I don't doubt it. Of course you can, you already change systems from night to night as you change from college games to high school games, and maybe even from Illinois high school games to Indiana high school games. Flexibility is a valuable asset. It's part of what makes you a great basketball official.

But the high school only guys that I work with, especially the young'uns I often work with in my middle school games, lack that flexibility (and greatness). If they have problems knowing if the basketball is stuffed, or inflated, how are they going to smoothly and successfully switch from IAABO mechanics to NFHS mechanics from one game to the next, and one partner to the next, especially in bang bang out of bonds plays, that should be reflexive, and almost automatic.

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1044607)

Officiating is officiating ... The main difference is the partners you work with and what they may or may not bring to the table in experience or knowledge.

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1044579)

https://storage.googleapis.com/refqu...vil1muCg%3D%3D

IAABO Play Commentary Correct Answer: This play is correctly ruled.

This is an incredibly challenging play for a Crew of 2. As the ball is passed from the midcourt area toward the sideline, the defensive player (in the white jersey) does deflect the ball. It appears it may have also touched the player in the black jersey before going out of bounds, which is what was ruled on the play.

Did this crew handle this play as outlined in the manual? The answer is No. This crew, for a moment, seems unsure who should make the ruling. They make eye contact, and the Trail signals direction while the Lead sounds the whistle and stops the clock. The Lead then mirrors the Trails direction signal—excellent teamwork on this difficult play.

By the IAABO manual, this is a ruling that the Trail official should cover. The Trail should sound the whistle and signal direction. (2020-21 IAABO manual p. 60) With the increase in motion offense and pressure defense, it is necessary for the Trail to cover the farther sideline more frequently. Farther sideline coverage by the Trail above the free-throw line extended reduces ball watching and provides better coverage while adhering to the PCA concept.

Since this play is in the Trail's PCA, the Trail is responsible for the ruling. This play coverage should be a topic in every pregame conference when working in a Crew of 2. If the Crew decides to deviate from the manual to have the Lead take the sideline and make this ruling, they should agree before the game. This will avoid the brief hesitation as seen by this crew.

How could the coverage of this play be improved? Starting with the Trail positioning, he should be a step or two more onto the court as the ball handler moves into the frontcourt. When the ball is passed to the sideline, the Trail could position adjust by "working the arc" toward the opposite sideline. This step or two may have provided a little better angle on the play, as his view from his original position may have been obstructed by the players in the midcourt area.

As the ball advances into the frontcourt, the Lead is in the closed-down "B" position. Lead officials should select their initial position based on the ball location as the ball crosses the division line. With the ball on the right side of the center circle, the Lead should "mirror the ball" and be a couple of steps wider toward the sideline. When the ball is passed to the sideline, the Lead should position adjust toward the sideline toward the "A" position. We hope this play helps your understanding of this important concept.

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1044608)

Also keep in mind that the way one moves up the ladder (or down the ladder) here in my little corner of 100% IAABO Connecticut is 100% based on evaluations. Evaluations by partners, and more importantly, evaluations by a select committee.

One of the five areas evaluated is mechanics, defined as utilizing proper mechanics, and up-to-date techniques and procedures as detailed in the IAABO Officials Manual, and there is no, "lead takes the entire sideline", anywhere in the IAABO Officials Manual.

If one "steps out of line", one takes a chance on getting poor evaluations and on being exiled to subvarsity hell.

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1044801)

Following rules and mechanics are also asked of us as well. And following procedures that have been laid out helps you as well. But is a premium that you can referee and not follow some book procedures and only those book procedures.

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1044801)

... mostly see 2 person at the lower level.

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1044802)

I'm in Connecticut. We see two person at all levels, almost all the time, right up to (but not including) the state quarterfinals.

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1044802)

That would be one heluva good official. First and foremost, one has to be able to officiate the game. Other stuff is the icing on the cake, the cherry on top of the hot fudge sundae.