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Old Wed Aug 25, 2021, 08:38am
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Fun With A Hip Check …

IAABO Make The Call Video

https://storage.googleapis.com/refqu...w%2B0UYg%3D%3D

Is this illegal contact during this rebound action? Which official should be responsible for this contact in the lane area while a ball is in flight during a try for goal?

Two choices: This is a foul for illegal contact. This is not a foul and the play should have continued.

My comment: This is a foul for illegal contact. White #20 “hip checked” and displaced Red #10.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Aug 25, 2021 at 10:40am.
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Old Wed Aug 25, 2021, 08:54am
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Cannot see the link.

Peace
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Old Wed Aug 25, 2021, 10:41am
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Working Link ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Cannot see the link.
Sorry. I fixed it. Please try again.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
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Old Wed Aug 25, 2021, 10:51am
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Fists ...

From a nit-picker perspective. Nice to see an official put hands on hips instead of fists on hips. I've been trying to do it the correct way for years, with little success. Best I can do is fist on hips at site of foul and hands on hips at reporting area.

Yeah, I'm aware that this is nit-picking, and definitely a local "thing", but I figure that when given a choice between the right way and the wrong way, I might as well try the right way.

Besides giving evaluators one less thing to pick on, it sets a good example for young'un officials.

Of course, as usual, when in Rome ...

Also for young'uns, leave the ball alone. I've been doing this for forty years and have never lost a ball. Not even once.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Aug 25, 2021 at 10:53am.
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Old Wed Aug 25, 2021, 11:59am
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The angle is horrible for us. It looks like there is some contact and they came together, but not sure how much. The C in this case had a much better look and angle. I guess it is a foul, but I would also suggest that the signal for the foul was flawed. It was not a "block" It was a push if that is the call. Undermines the credibility of what happened. Most people associate a "block" with some kind of facing-up action like an illegal screen or a defender getting in the way to the basket.

Peace
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Old Wed Aug 25, 2021, 12:50pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
I guess it is a foul, but I would also suggest that the signal for the foul was flawed. It was not a "block" It was a push if that is the call. Undermines the credibility of what happened. Most people associate a "block" with some kind of facing-up action like an illegal screen or a defender getting in the way to the basket.

Peace
4-7-1 Blocking is illegal personal contact which impedes the progress of an opponent with or without the ball.

While a player can push using other parts of their body, I generally use the "pushing" signal when a player uses their hands to commit the foul. I'm okay with the block signal here.
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Old Wed Aug 25, 2021, 12:53pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Goodwin View Post
4-7-1 Blocking is illegal personal contact which impedes the progress of an opponent with or without the ball.

While a player can push using other parts of their body, I generally use the "pushing" signal when a player uses their hands to commit the foul. I'm okay with the block signal here.
What is your point? Seriously. You think people buy what you called here if you use a "block" signal? I don't. I think you might raise more questions of what happened. If you say they "pushed" the opponent, it sells the call much more. Give the signal of what happened, not that confuses the issue.

Peace
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Old Wed Aug 25, 2021, 12:56pm
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One Man's Push Is Another Man's Block ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
... suggest that the signal for the foul was flawed. It was not a "block" It was a push if that is the call ... Most people associate a "block" with some kind of facing-up action like an illegal screen or a defender getting in the way to the basket.
4-7-1: Blocking is illegal personal contact which impedes the progress of an opponent with or without the ball.

Agree. I believe that JRutledge is correct in that most blocks are illegal screens or a block/charges.

However, I may sometimes give a block signal if a player uses their entire body (not just an arm) to cause illegal contact as in the "hip check" in this video.

In situations where I have a choice of signals, I will often default to a push.
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Old Wed Aug 25, 2021, 01:03pm
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Game Management ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
... signal ... Undermines the credibility of what happened ...
Agree. Some officials are "sloppy" with signals, nonchalantly figuring that a foul in the book is a foul in the book no matter what type of foul it was.

What such officials don't realize is that many coaches do pay attention to the type of foul called and signaled, and giving the correct signal can sometimes deescalate a game management issue before it even begins.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Aug 25, 2021 at 01:31pm.
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Old Wed Aug 25, 2021, 01:17pm
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Coaches Do Pay Attention To Signals ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
... many coaches do pay attention to the type of foul called and signaled, and giving the correct signal can sometimes deescalate a game management issue before it even begins.
After a defender causes illegal contact trying to block a shot, and a coach misses my preliminary signal, as I'm on my way to the reporting area I can see the coach ready to erupt like a volcano, with an "all ball" look in his eyes, until I report a block, or a push, instead of an illegal use of hands, and then he calms down instantly (at least, in theory).

Coaches do pay attention to signals.

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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Aug 25, 2021 at 04:38pm.
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Old Wed Aug 25, 2021, 01:29pm
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Signals ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Goodwin View Post
While a player can push using other parts of their body, I generally use the "pushing" signal when a player uses their hands to commit the foul. I'm okay with the block signal here.
I'm okay with either signal for the contact in the video.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Aug 25, 2021 at 01:32pm.
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Old Wed Aug 25, 2021, 01:49pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
What is your point? Seriously. You think people buy what you called here if you use a "block" signal? I don't. I think you might raise more questions of what happened. If you say they "pushed" the opponent, it sells the call much more. Give the signal of what happened, not that confuses the issue.

Peace
Alaskans buy air conditioners, too, so yes, I could sell this as a block. Sorry.
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Old Wed Aug 25, 2021, 02:29pm
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Great Salesman ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Goodwin View Post
Alaskans buy air conditioners, too, so yes, I could sell this as a block.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

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Old Wed Aug 25, 2021, 03:11pm
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I use block when someone creates illegal contact by putting themselves in the path of an opponent.

I use push when someone uses their body or arms to knock an opponent off their path.

To me, this is clearly the second situation. I am OCD about using the correct signals b/c I don't like to give coaches reasons to question our judgment. Giving incorrect signals allows for such opportunities.
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Old Wed Aug 25, 2021, 04:35pm
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Rule Of Thumb ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
... block when someone creates illegal contact by putting themselves in the path of an opponent ... push when someone uses their body or arms to knock an opponent off their path ...
Well stated. I like Raymond's rule of thumb to differentiate blocks and pushes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
... using the correct signals b/c I don't like to give coaches reasons to question our judgment. Giving incorrect signals allows for such opportunities.
... and we certainly don't want to give coaches any indication that we're guessing, a recipe for a disaster.

As JRutledge stated earlier, I almost always call blocks for illegal screens and block/charge situations, and usually default to pushes for players knocking opponents off their paths.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Aug 25, 2021 at 04:52pm.
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