Fun With Up And Down …
 

IAABO Make The Call Video

https://storage.googleapis.com/refqu...%2FMYUhw%3D%3D

Is this a traveling violation? Observe the play and make a judgment as to whether or not this is a traveling violation?

Two choices: This is a traveling violation. This is not a traveling violation.

My comment: This is not a traveling violation. A player can't travel while fumbling the ball. During a fumble the player is not in control of the ball, and therefore, cannot be called for a traveling violation. A fumble is the accidental loss of player control when the ball is unintentionally dropped, or slips from a player’s grasp. After a player has fumbled the ball, that player may recover the ball without violating. Any steps taken during the recovery of a fumble are not traveling. It is always legal to recover a fumble.

Shot Attempt ...
 

Any chance that this could be considered a try for goal? A shooter can always retrieve his own airball if the official considers it to be a shot attempt.

Change His Mind ...
 

Looked at it again. Did he really fumble the ball, or did he change his mind and decide not to shoot?

Do either of these (from the Misunderstood Rules List) apply?

When an airborne player tries for goal, sees that the try will be blocked, purposely drops the ball, and touches the ball after it hits the floor, that player has traveled by starting a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor. When an airborne shooter fumbles the ball (while still in the air) instead of releasing the ball on a try, drops the ball, and then returns to the floor and secures possession of the ball, it’s a traveling violation.

Travel.

You state: From where do you get that?



SITUATION 1: Al is an airborne shooter preparing to release the ball on a shot attempt. Instead of releasing the ball on the try, Al fumbles the ball (while stifi in the air) and drops it. Al then returns to the floor and secures possession of the ball. RULING: Traveling violation. While airborne the bail must be released for a try or pass. (4—43-3a; 94)

I've got a play on. He clearly fumbled the ball and can recover that fumble. Or even if you say it is a shot attempt, he can get his own shot. I think this looked funny and the official called what people would accept.

Peace

Great Play To Discuss ...
 

Something often claimed by four different highly regarded local interpreters over the past forty years. Possibly a "Rule of Thumb" that may have some exceptions (although exceptions have never been mentioned).

Nice citation (2000-2001 BASKETBALL INTERPRETATIONS SUPPLEMENT) bob jenkins. Thanks.

Does "drops it" imply a deliberate act or an accidental act and does it make a difference? Does the different order of events in the citation versus the video make any difference (video player secured possession before returning to the floor)? Does the citation player regain possession after the fumble and before the drop? Did the video player release the ball on a try?

I don't have definite answers for my questions, certainly not good enough answers to go to bat for and to die on a hill for (sorry about the mixed metaphors).

This is a great play to discuss.

Smile, You're On Candid Camera ...
 

Certainly accepted by the shooter.

Yeah, he does not know the rule either.

Peace

Figures ...
 

That's “Buddy” Boeheim, son of Syracuse head coach Jim Boeheim.

You mean the son of a coach does not know a rule? Of course they don't.

Peace

Since the video clip is from an NCAA contest, I will point out that the NCAA issued an AR fairly recently which states that an airborne player who fumbles the ball may recover it without violating. As Bob posted above the old NFHS interpretation provides the opposite ruling at the HS level.

Can I correctly infer from Billy Mac and bob jenkins's quotes that one is not allowed to start a dribble with no foot on the floor? That if a player who's not touching the floor releases the ball, that action cannot result in a dribble?

Assuming the player had the ball with a pivot foot on the floor and then raised the pivot foot, all the player can do is shoot, pass or request a TO.

Starting a dribble is a violation.

An airborne player could catch a pass or secure a rebound and quickly start a dribble prior to landing.

But how does anyone know it's a dribble until the ball is touched again? Is the violation then retroactive to when the player released the ball, starting the dribble? Or when the player touches the ball again, making it a dribble?

99.44% of the time it's obvious.

Otherwise, wait until it's touched. The violation is for *releasing* the ball on a dribble.

Ivory Soap, 99 And 44/100 Pure ...
 

I wait until it's touched otherwise it could be the start of a legal bounce pass.

https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.m...=0&w=221&h=167

This is not a traveling violation.
 

This is not a traveling violation according to IAABO

as BillyM says"Disclaimer: For IAABO eyes only. Below is not a NFHS interpretation, it's only an IAABO International interpretation which obviously doesn't mean a hill of beans to most members of this Forum."


Play Commentary
White #35 appears to jump to attempt a try when the ball slips from his grasp. White #35 then returns to the floor and recovers the ball.
This is considered a fumble. By NFHS rules, this would be a legal play.
A fumble is the accidental loss of player control when the ball unintentionally drops or slips from a player's grasp. (4-21)
A player may legally recover a fumble, which is what occurred in this play. After recovering the ball, the ball handler would establish a pivot foot outlined in the traveling rules. (4-44)

Is this the IAABO commentary about the play like BM normally posts or is this your spin on this play?

And I totally agree with this commentary BTW.

Peace

IAABO Survey Says …
 

Yes.

Disclaimer: For IAABO eyes only. Below is not a NFHS interpretation, it's only an IAABO International interpretation which obviously doesn't mean a hill of beans to most members of this Forum.

https://storage.googleapis.com/refqu...%2FMYUhw%3D%3D

IAABO Play Commentary Correct Answer: This is not a traveling violation.

White #35 appears to jump to attempt a try when the ball slips from his grasp. White #35 then returns to the floor and recovers the ball.

This is considered a fumble. By NFHS rules, this would be a legal play. A fumble is the accidental loss of player control when the ball unintentionally drops or slips from a player's grasp. (4-21)

A player may legally recover a fumble, which is what occurred in this play. After recovering the ball, the ball handler would establish a pivot foot outlined in the traveling rules. (4-44)

Here is the breakdown of the IAABO members that commented on the video: This is a traveling violation 71%. This is not a traveling violation 29% (including me).

Don't Leave Home Without It ...
 

What? No percentage breakdown of the IAABO members that commented on the video? RefLarry must have misplaced his Pickett Model N-500-ES Trig All Metal Slide Rule.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...925d5034_m.jpg

Perfect Strangers ...
 

Is Cousin Larry officiating basketball now?

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP._...=95&w=94&h=104

Note: Young'uns can look it up on the Google.

Fumble ...
 

Interesting to note that IAABO bases its interpretation on the fumble aspect, not the try for goal aspect (which was a stretch).

I am trying!

Next time I quote you BillyMac I will include percentage breakdown.

New Fangled Calculator ...
 

I bet that you will use of of those new fangled calculators, never quite trusted 'em.