The Official Forum - Fun With A Pivot Foot ...

The Official Forum (https://forum.officiating.com/)

- Basketball (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/)

- - Fun With A Pivot Foot ... (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/105438-fun-pivot-foot.html)

Fun With A Pivot Foot ...

IAABO Make The Call Video

https://storage.googleapis.com/refqu...VXNosVWA%3D%3D

Does Red #22 travel at the start of the dribble? Which foot is the pivot foot? Was it lifted before the start of the dribble?

Two choices: This is a traveling violation. This is not a traveling violation.

My comment: This is not a traveling violation. Red #22's left foot is is pivot foot. Straight-lined. Can't see when ball was released on dribble. If you're not sure, don't call it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1043558)

My comment: This is not a traveling violation. Red #22's left foot is is pivot foot. Straight-lined. Can't see when ball was released on dribble. If you're not sure, don't call it.

The left foot clearly moves before the dribble. That said, I have the right foot (catch with both feet on the floor, neither moves until the left does, making the right the pivot) as the pivot, and no travel.

Not sure how you came up with the left foot being the pivot foot.

Right foot is the pivot foot and to me he clearly has released the ball prior to lifting it.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1043559)

I have the right foot (catch with both feet on the floor, neither moves until the left does, making the right the pivot) as the pivot, and no travel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1043560)

Not sure how you came up with the left foot being the pivot foot.

My observation at 25% speed (available to IAABO members). 10 second mark.

Immediately after catch with both feet on floor, right foot lifts slightly (or maybe it doesn't lift, not 100% sure) and moves slightly to the right and back, making the left foot the pivot foot.

Player's body blocks our view to see the exact release point of the dribble relative to the lifting of the left pivot foot (I could guess, but I'd prefer not to guess here).

The last we clearly see the ball in the hand of Red #22 is after he sweeps the ball across to the right of his body, and then back to his left and down to start the dribble (at which point his body fully blocks our view of the ball), which is the same exact time that the official's hand partially blocks our clear view of the left foot (which I believe is the pivot foot).

I'm not sure on a few different key points of this play (pivot foot identification, pivot foot lifting, exact release point of dribble), so since I'm not sure, I'm not calling the travel violation.

I may have screwed up the identification of the pivot foot, and the release of the dribble, but I'm not calling something that I'm so unsure about, even at 25% speed on a few replays.

Nice video.

Note: If one identifies the right foot as the pivot foot, then I agree with Raymond and bob jenkins that the ball was released to start the the dribble before the (right) pivot foot was lifted, thus no travel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1043561)

... right foot lifts slightly (or maybe it doesn't lift, not 100% sure) and moves slightly to the right and back, making the left foot the pivot foot.

This is the key to my call.

Did the right foot lift after the catch, or not? I've watched the video several times at various speeds, and sometimes I think the foot lifted, and other times I believe that it didn't lift.

And then, assuming that the right foot didn't lift, was the slight movement of the right shoe to the right and back an actual "movement", or just a sloppy legal pivot?

I'm not calling something that I'm so unsure about. No travel.

Again, nice video.

IAABO Survey Says …

Disclaimer: For IAABO eyes only. Below is not a NFHS interpretation, it's only an IAABO International interpretation which obviously doesn't mean a hill of beans to most members of this Forum.

https://storage.googleapis.com/refqu...VXNosVWA%3D%3D

IAABO Play Commentary: Correct Answer: This is not a traveling violation.

Red #22 receives a pass with both feet on the floor. He then steps with his left foot. Once his left foot was lifted, it established the right foot as the pivot foot. (4-44-1) He then appears to release the ball on a dribble before his right foot comes off the floor, which makes this a legal play. (4-44-3c)

From where the Trail official is positioned, it is difficult to be sure exactly when the ball was released to start the dribble. Red #22 moves away from the Trail official, who is in a straight-line position. Before ruling any violation, officials need to be 100% sure a violation has been committed. In this play, if you are unsure if the pivot foot was lifted before the start of the dribble, it should be ruled a legal play.

The Trail does a pretty good job getting an angle as Red #5 dribbles the ball toward the opposite sideline. Red #5 picks up his dribble and passes to Red #22. This was an opportunity for the Trail official to position adjust toward the sideline and possibly be in a better position to have an open view between Red #22 and his defender, White #32. Had this adjustment been made, he may have also had a better view of the start of the dribble.

Working the Trail in a Crew of 2 is challenging. To be effective, we need to be active and adjust quickly when opportunities present themselves. There was no chance the pass between Red #5 and Red #22 was going to be intercepted in this play. If/when the Trail recognized Red #22 was uncovered, he could have quickly wrapped back toward the sideline and been in a very good position as Red #22 received the ball. Ruling accurately on plays comes down to proper angles. Therefore, officials need to constantly be working hard to get the best angles available on every play.

Here is the breakdown of the IAABO members that commented on the video: This is not a traveling violation 61% (including me, but for a different reason). This is a traveling violation 39%.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1043597)

...

From where the Trail official is positioned, it is difficult to be sure exactly when the ball was released to start the dribble. Red #22 moves away from the Trail official, who is in a straight-line position. Before ruling any violation, officials need to be 100% sure a violation has been committed. In this play, if you are unsure if the pivot foot was lifted before the start of the dribble, it should be ruled a legal play.

The Trail does a pretty good job getting an angle as Red #5 dribbles the ball toward the opposite sideline. Red #5 picks up his dribble and passes to Red #22. This was an opportunity for the Trail official to position adjust toward the sideline and possibly be in a better position to have an open view between Red #22 and his defender, White #32. Had this adjustment been made, he may have also had a better view of the start of the dribble.

Working the Trail in a Crew of 2 is challenging. To be effective, we need to be active and adjust quickly when opportunities present themselves. There was no chance the pass between Red #5 and Red #22 was going to be intercepted in this play. If/when the Trail recognized Red #22 was uncovered, he could have quickly wrapped back toward the sideline and been in a very good position as Red #22 received the ball. Ruling accurately on plays comes down to proper angles. Therefore, officials need to constantly be working hard to get the best angles available on every play. [/I]

...

I always advise officials working 2-man to work a Center position whenever possible when in the Trail, especially if they are speedy enough to keep pace with fast breaks.

Experience Rather Than Athleticism ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1043600)

... if they are speedy enough to keep pace with fast breaks.

Not me. With an arthritic ankle riddled with bone spurs, and a bad knee with a partially torn meniscus, I have voluntarily self-exiled myself to only subvarsity games, mostly middle school games, and even in those games I have to use experience rather than athleticism to get the best angles.

Would middle coaches rather have forty year veteran slow moving dinosaurs officiating their games, or speedy spanking brand new rookie gazelles officiating their games?

I know what they really want, forty year veteran speedy gazelles, but those guys are working varsity games at night, not middle school games in the mid-afternoon.